Landracing Forum Home
October 23, 2017, 03:38:49 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Poll
Question: Which is better for a short wheel base car at bonnevile
Differential - 2 (40%)
Closed Spool - 3 (60%)
Total Voters: 5

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Short Wheel Base Belly Tanker at Bonneville: Closed Spool or Differential?  (Read 5507 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
jl222
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: Clovis calif.
Posts: 2523




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2016, 02:20:27 PM »

 A Gearvendor overdrive unit would help. But not sure how much room You have.

         jl222 cheers
Logged
Peter Jack
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 74
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3441





Ignore
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2016, 03:04:01 PM »

Thanks Glen. Now I see what you're talking about.  grin grin grin

Pete
Logged
Glen
Global Moderator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 82
Location: South West Utah
Posts: 6925

SCTA/BNI timer 1983 to 2004, Retired,. Crew on Tur



« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2016, 03:30:32 PM »

JL222 on the Turbinator II we have a gear reduction drive to reduce the engine speed by 1/2 , 19000 rpm was a little more then we could handle. I will be interested in this build though.
Logged

Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah
Jack Gifford
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 77
Location: Phelps, NY
Posts: 1031





Ignore
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2016, 11:53:40 PM »

Is the 2.19 ratio of the open tube QC the ring/pinion ratio? If so, you'd have the freedom to set whatever overall ratio you want, via the QC gearset.
Logged

M/T Pontiac hemi guru
jl222
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Location: Clovis calif.
Posts: 2523




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2016, 12:16:57 AM »

JL222 on the Turbinator II we have a gear reduction drive to reduce the engine speed by 1/2 , 19000 rpm was a little more then we could handle. I will be interested in this build though.


 I was surprised that his output speed is only 6000 rpm. I thought all turbines were faster.

 Stop by if your at El Mirage.

    JL222
Logged
TransTurbine
New folks

Offline Offline

Location: Maryland
Posts: 6



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2016, 01:17:19 PM »

The gas and power turbines spin close to 40,000 rpm. The free power turbine goes in a planetary reduction gearbox providing the final 6000 rpm. The 2.19 is not the ring and pinion ratio, it would be the final overall ratio with a specific quick change gear set installed. 2.19 is the highest I can go with an open tube, live axle, quick change setup.

This is really tipping the scale in favor of a closed tube quick change where I can go with a final ratio of 1.80 since type can accommodate a smaller ring and pinion. It is just those outboard mounted rotors and calipers that I don't like much. If I wanted to space my rear off from my turbine, I could use a short shaft and install my breaking before the rear end. However This just adds more complexity and more moving parts to the equation as well as additional weight.

With this being said I will stick to the rear end being mounted directly to the turbine. My next topic I am looking for feedback on is suspension vs. rigid. However I will leave this for a separate post. Also will wait for my rule book before popping off tons of questions that can probably be answered there.
Logged
bbarn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 47
Location: Harmony, PA
Posts: 614





Ignore
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2016, 01:56:43 PM »

I plan on using 17" wheels with tires with an OD of approximately 26" as long as M/H tires will be acceptable. That is a topic for another day.

I would recommend not waiting too long into your design (pre-build) stage to decide on a wheel and tire combination. I didn't catch a speed that you are shooting for but tires can become the center of all your woes very quickly.

Ground clearance, turn radius, brake design, suspension travel, clearances, room for growth...all these things (AND MORE) can be determined or limited or prevented by the tires you choose.

Logged

I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.
Rex Schimmer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 74
Location: Fulton, CA
Posts: 2117


Only time and money prevent completion!




Ignore
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2016, 02:23:17 PM »

Many times the maximum ratio for a QC is limited by the diameter that the case is bored to to clear the change gears. What can be done is to bore the case to accept the larger diameter change gears. Could be that the live axle model that you are considering, which is predominately used in dirt cars, cannot take a larger gear on the lower shaft because the case bore is to small. I would check with your potential supplier and see if that is the problem and if they could bore it larger.

Rex
Logged

Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.
TransTurbine
New folks

Offline Offline

Location: Maryland
Posts: 6



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2016, 02:31:58 PM »

Alright let is now talk some tires. I am planning on using 17" solid aluminum wheels. This limits my tire options. I can choose Goodyear Eagle Front Runners which only have an OD of 22" which would net me 218 mph. That speed will not achieve a new record in class 1 or class 2. So that points me to a taller tire, which brings me to the manufacturer of M/H which has a 26" and 28" OD tires for the 17" wheel.

Now, I am open to using a 15" wheel which would open me back up to more options with goodyear. I have had a hard time finding a solid 15" wheel which is 3.5-4.5" wide. I prefer not to run a spoked wheel or moon covers. I like the moon look yet much rather achieve it with a solid wheel.

Any suggestions would absolutely be appreciated!

Seth
Logged
SPARKY
Global Moderator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 75
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 6236




« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2016, 02:33:00 PM »

My final drive is 1.66 with 2.14 and a 22% od from the GV( which is very small and can be set up to free wheel)   with 24.5 tires has ben 309 at 6900
Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
jacksoni
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 73
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Posts: 958




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2016, 07:04:59 PM »

In your post # 20 above you mention a "problem" of extra weight. As you are in the  traction limited realm of power and speed, weight- properly distributed- is your friend. Lots of post about that here. Don't worry about that one.

You might look at, if have not seen already, this thread: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,15803.0.html Similar questions being addressed. There are a lot of lakester build threads on here, be worthwhile to read them all.

Also some comments about suspension in this thread: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,15841.0.html
Logged

Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 169.741  2009
 G/GMS-178.835 2010
bbarn
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 47
Location: Harmony, PA
Posts: 614





Ignore
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2016, 09:28:11 AM »

Alright let is now talk some tires. I am planning on using 17" solid aluminum wheels. This limits my tire options. I can choose Goodyear Eagle Front Runners which only have an OD of 22" which would net me 218 mph. That speed will not achieve a new record in class 1 or class 2. So that points me to a taller tire, which brings me to the manufacturer of M/H which has a 26" and 28" OD tires for the 17" wheel.

Now, I am open to using a 15" wheel which would open me back up to more options with goodyear. I have had a hard time finding a solid 15" wheel which is 3.5-4.5" wide. I prefer not to run a spoked wheel or moon covers. I like the moon look yet much rather achieve it with a solid wheel.

Any suggestions would absolutely be appreciated!

Seth

Custom wheels aren't a bad way to go here. If you have solid centers there isn't a lot of machining required to make them which keeps them extremely reasonable.

We did customs for ours which let us design the width and the offset we required for packaging. The prices were very reasonable.
Logged

I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.
Rex Schimmer
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 74
Location: Fulton, CA
Posts: 2117


Only time and money prevent completion!




Ignore
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2016, 12:21:41 PM »

Seth,
You said: "Alright let is now talk some tires. I am planning on using 17" solid aluminum wheels. This limits my tire options. I can choose Goodyear Eagle Front Runners which only have an OD of 22" which would net me 218 mph." I don't think the Goodyear 17 inch front runners are approved for a drive application, especially the early ones that are limited by the SCTA for front only applications, 200 mph max. The later design tires are rated at 300 mph again for front applications only. Also if you do happen to run these as front tires they have a motorcycle type of bead and require the wheel to have a compatible rim design. (Ask Sparky about this!) If you do plan to run them there is a manufacture in the LA area that makes a forged aluminum solid center wheel with the proper motorcycle bead design that are very reasonable. allamericanwheel.com I have a set and they are nice pieces. Lots of material on the center disc to machine almost any mounting configuration.

Rex
Logged

Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 66
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6421


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2016, 08:08:36 AM »

You are limiting your speed potential by building a belly tank lakester for turbine, it was mentioned earlier, you need to pay attention to that.  It takes a lot more HP to run an open wheel vehicle. 
What kind of HP are you planning...
Streamliners get 5 miles, lakesters have to qualify to get more than 3.
Your tire strategy will not work as also mentioned earlier, rethink it. 
Before you build, come to the salt to see how others build.  You probably won't see a lot of turbine cars, but powerplant is a choice, car types and how people package will be what you need to look at.
Good luck with your project, we look forward to more info  cheers
Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
krusty
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 245





Ignore
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2016, 03:53:25 PM »

Just spitballin'.  If your rear wheel was a 4.5" width and had a 4" backspace (with a 1/2" center) you would have a "flush" exterior and plenty of room to fit in a 2"drum brake with 2" shoes and be able to run an inner wheel disc too. I haven't drawn this out to verify the #s, but you get the idea. Then you could run the the quickchange with the better r&p and the 15" wheels. The drum brakes will provide all the braking  you might need, and can be backed off a skosh grin to eliminate any drag (just remember to pump them when you first apply them to take up the slack).

vic
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page September 28, 2017, 01:54:43 PM