Poll

Which is better for a short wheel base car at bonnevile

Differential
2 (40%)
Closed Spool
3 (60%)

Total Members Voted: 5

Author Topic: Short Wheel Base Belly Tanker at Bonneville: Closed Spool or Differential?  (Read 17200 times)

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Offline jl222

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 A Gearvendor overdrive unit would help. But not sure how much room You have.

         jl222 :cheers:

Offline Peter Jack

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Thanks Glen. Now I see what you're talking about.  :-D :-D :-D

Pete

Offline Glen

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JL222 on the Turbinator II we have a gear reduction drive to reduce the engine speed by 1/2 , 19000 rpm was a little more then we could handle. I will be interested in this build though.
Glen
Crew on Turbinator II

South West, Utah

Offline Jack Gifford

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Is the 2.19 ratio of the open tube QC the ring/pinion ratio? If so, you'd have the freedom to set whatever overall ratio you want, via the QC gearset.
M/T Pontiac hemi guru
F/BFL 1-mile Loring record 2020

Offline jl222

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JL222 on the Turbinator II we have a gear reduction drive to reduce the engine speed by 1/2 , 19000 rpm was a little more then we could handle. I will be interested in this build though.


 I was surprised that his output speed is only 6000 rpm. I thought all turbines were faster.

 Stop by if your at El Mirage.

    JL222

Offline TransTurbine

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    • TransTurbine
The gas and power turbines spin close to 40,000 rpm. The free power turbine goes in a planetary reduction gearbox providing the final 6000 rpm. The 2.19 is not the ring and pinion ratio, it would be the final overall ratio with a specific quick change gear set installed. 2.19 is the highest I can go with an open tube, live axle, quick change setup.

This is really tipping the scale in favor of a closed tube quick change where I can go with a final ratio of 1.80 since type can accommodate a smaller ring and pinion. It is just those outboard mounted rotors and calipers that I don't like much. If I wanted to space my rear off from my turbine, I could use a short shaft and install my breaking before the rear end. However This just adds more complexity and more moving parts to the equation as well as additional weight.

With this being said I will stick to the rear end being mounted directly to the turbine. My next topic I am looking for feedback on is suspension vs. rigid. However I will leave this for a separate post. Also will wait for my rule book before popping off tons of questions that can probably be answered there.

Offline bbarn

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I plan on using 17" wheels with tires with an OD of approximately 26" as long as M/H tires will be acceptable. That is a topic for another day.

I would recommend not waiting too long into your design (pre-build) stage to decide on a wheel and tire combination. I didn't catch a speed that you are shooting for but tires can become the center of all your woes very quickly.

Ground clearance, turn radius, brake design, suspension travel, clearances, room for growth...all these things (AND MORE) can be determined or limited or prevented by the tires you choose.

I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Many times the maximum ratio for a QC is limited by the diameter that the case is bored to to clear the change gears. What can be done is to bore the case to accept the larger diameter change gears. Could be that the live axle model that you are considering, which is predominately used in dirt cars, cannot take a larger gear on the lower shaft because the case bore is to small. I would check with your potential supplier and see if that is the problem and if they could bore it larger.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline TransTurbine

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Alright let is now talk some tires. I am planning on using 17" solid aluminum wheels. This limits my tire options. I can choose Goodyear Eagle Front Runners which only have an OD of 22" which would net me 218 mph. That speed will not achieve a new record in class 1 or class 2. So that points me to a taller tire, which brings me to the manufacturer of M/H which has a 26" and 28" OD tires for the 17" wheel.

Now, I am open to using a 15" wheel which would open me back up to more options with goodyear. I have had a hard time finding a solid 15" wheel which is 3.5-4.5" wide. I prefer not to run a spoked wheel or moon covers. I like the moon look yet much rather achieve it with a solid wheel.

Any suggestions would absolutely be appreciated!

Seth

Offline SPARKY

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My final drive is 1.66 with 2.14 and a 22% od from the GV( which is very small and can be set up to free wheel)   with 24.5 tires has ben 309 at 6900
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

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Offline jacksoni

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In your post # 20 above you mention a "problem" of extra weight. As you are in the  traction limited realm of power and speed, weight- properly distributed- is your friend. Lots of post about that here. Don't worry about that one.

You might look at, if have not seen already, this thread: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,15803.0.html Similar questions being addressed. There are a lot of lakester build threads on here, be worthwhile to read them all.

Also some comments about suspension in this thread: http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,15841.0.html
Jack Iliff
 G/BGS-250.235 1987
 G/GC- 193.550 2021
  G/FAlt- 193.934 2021 (196.033 best)
 G/GMS-182.144 2019

Offline bbarn

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Alright let is now talk some tires. I am planning on using 17" solid aluminum wheels. This limits my tire options. I can choose Goodyear Eagle Front Runners which only have an OD of 22" which would net me 218 mph. That speed will not achieve a new record in class 1 or class 2. So that points me to a taller tire, which brings me to the manufacturer of M/H which has a 26" and 28" OD tires for the 17" wheel.

Now, I am open to using a 15" wheel which would open me back up to more options with goodyear. I have had a hard time finding a solid 15" wheel which is 3.5-4.5" wide. I prefer not to run a spoked wheel or moon covers. I like the moon look yet much rather achieve it with a solid wheel.

Any suggestions would absolutely be appreciated!

Seth

Custom wheels aren't a bad way to go here. If you have solid centers there isn't a lot of machining required to make them which keeps them extremely reasonable.

We did customs for ours which let us design the width and the offset we required for packaging. The prices were very reasonable.
I almost never wake up cranky, I usually just let her sleep in.

Offline Rex Schimmer

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Seth,
You said: "Alright let is now talk some tires. I am planning on using 17" solid aluminum wheels. This limits my tire options. I can choose Goodyear Eagle Front Runners which only have an OD of 22" which would net me 218 mph." I don't think the Goodyear 17 inch front runners are approved for a drive application, especially the early ones that are limited by the SCTA for front only applications, 200 mph max. The later design tires are rated at 300 mph again for front applications only. Also if you do happen to run these as front tires they have a motorcycle type of bead and require the wheel to have a compatible rim design. (Ask Sparky about this!) If you do plan to run them there is a manufacture in the LA area that makes a forged aluminum solid center wheel with the proper motorcycle bead design that are very reasonable. allamericanwheel.com I have a set and they are nice pieces. Lots of material on the center disc to machine almost any mounting configuration.

Rex
Rex

Not much matters and the rest doesn't matter at all.

Offline Stainless1

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You are limiting your speed potential by building a belly tank lakester for turbine, it was mentioned earlier, you need to pay attention to that.  It takes a lot more HP to run an open wheel vehicle. 
What kind of HP are you planning...
Streamliners get 5 miles, lakesters have to qualify to get more than 3.
Your tire strategy will not work as also mentioned earlier, rethink it. 
Before you build, come to the salt to see how others build.  You probably won't see a lot of turbine cars, but powerplant is a choice, car types and how people package will be what you need to look at.
Good luck with your project, we look forward to more info  :cheers:
Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, Bockscar Lakester #1000 with a little N2O

Offline krusty

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Just spitballin'.  If your rear wheel was a 4.5" width and had a 4" backspace (with a 1/2" center) you would have a "flush" exterior and plenty of room to fit in a 2"drum brake with 2" shoes and be able to run an inner wheel disc too. I haven't drawn this out to verify the #s, but you get the idea. Then you could run the the quickchange with the better r&p and the 15" wheels. The drum brakes will provide all the braking  you might need, and can be backed off a skosh :-D to eliminate any drag (just remember to pump them when you first apply them to take up the slack).

vic