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Question: Which is better for a short wheel base car at bonnevile
Differential - 2 (40%)
Closed Spool - 3 (60%)
Total Voters: 5

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Author Topic: Short Wheel Base Belly Tanker at Bonneville: Closed Spool or Differential?  (Read 5495 times)
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TransTurbine
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« on: May 10, 2016, 04:30:28 PM »

Good day fellow members,

I am currently designing a belly tank style lakester for Bonneville. It will be entered into either the turbine class 1 or 2 category. This will be my first vehicle of this style and environment. With this being said I am relying heavily on other racers and builders with experience.

I am currently working on picking a rear end setup. I am going to go with a quick change setup. I can use a closed tube or open tube live axle setup. Both have pros and cons. However I have one major concern as of now.

I have been told that cars with a short wheel base at Bonneville can be problematic if they do not have a differential. I was told if the rear end starts to come out from underneath me the wheels will then be rotating at different speeds. The differential would accommodate for the inconsistency and hopefully equalize if I kept a straight course.

Does any one have any experience in this area. I would prefer to run a live axle setup yet it will be a closed spool, no differentials are available. Yet do not want to jeopardize my safety.

Any advice would greatly be appreciated.

Seth
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SPARKY
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« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2016, 05:39:25 PM »

 huh   What--- just thinking about this you have jeopardized your safety---
« Last Edit: May 10, 2016, 05:41:56 PM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2016, 05:51:57 PM »

Sparky,

Do you have any experience to contribute or recommendations? Have you run a closed spool or know anyone who has? If so what has the experience been?

Thank you,

Seth
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RichFox
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2016, 05:56:17 PM »

I have run a spool in  roadster. It worked OK. I think I like an open rear end better. You are aware that as a turbine powered car you will be in the streamliner class? I think.
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Stan Back
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« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2016, 06:00:31 PM »

It's like Hillary and Donald -- Both can cause trouble.
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« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2016, 06:06:57 PM »

We run a lakester with small motors and have a solid rear axle. Most of the time it is fine. Fastest pass H/BGL 246. Put 6 of us in the 200 MPH club. What is the weight? How fast do you want to go? Do you have a SCTA rule book? It can be really fun.

John
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John Gowetski, red hat @ 221.183 MPH MSA Lakester, Bockscar #1000 60 ci normally aspirated w/N20
mike f
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« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2016, 07:13:33 PM »

Hi to all,  All the cars that have I changed from a spool or locker to a torque bias type differential have gone faster and the drivers have said it was easier to drive.  I like the Eaton Detroit Tru/Track diff. it is a geared type like the high dollar Gleason Torsen diff.  But unlike the Gleason the Tru/Track can have the break away torque set. I know cost is always a factor , but I do not like any geared diff. that uses aluminum cases.  I know I'm an old school guy and believe drive feel is really important and if they can drive it, they will go faster.  Hope this helps.  Mike
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« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2016, 11:58:47 PM »

Either system works fine in light weight tanks & by the way, most tank people hate the term "tanker".
I think Rich is right about the liner class, you might want to clarify that with SCTA.
  Sid.
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2016, 07:05:49 AM »

TT, how 'bout contacting Joe Timney at Delaware Chassis Works?  He's in Townsend, Delaware - and is - - ah, experienced at the salt.  He might be a good "local" resource for you.  On this Forum he's Joe Timney (search for him).
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2016, 09:50:37 AM »

T-T  I have run them all.  I am with Mike F---We run a 7.5" GM rear with a Toreson with 2.14  at B'Ville  a we are trying a 2.73 at El M this weekend we run a PG without a TQ converter with GV .78 as a 3 speed we do not use it in low---maybe some day we will get brave enough

This comb is very pocket book friendly---thanks to Ebay---be ware GM did a lousy job on the axle tubes---they are not parallel to one another--some are horrible  my best luck is out of M vans,  be sure to use an alignment bar that goes all the way through and put the end on first that has the lowest deviation.
« Last Edit: May 11, 2016, 09:58:15 AM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
TransTurbine
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« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2016, 12:15:24 PM »

Good afternoon Fellow Members,

I truly appreciate all the replies and information. I have a new rule book coming and look forward to getting acclimated to the contents. I will certainly have to find out if I can run a Belly tank style vehicle. I believe I can since that class is weight based yet I will know more soon. I would be entering into either class 1 or 2. Class 2 is 1100-2200 lbs and current speed is 240 plus mph. Class 1 would be below 1099lbs and current record is 223.464 mph. If my final weight is low enough I would be going for T1.

I would really like to use an open tube quick change from winters since it gives me flexibility with brake placement and slide on wheel hubs, etc. I can run inboard calipers and rotors which will sit on either side of the rear and be enclosed within the body. Down side is the highest ratio available is 2.19.

I can go with a closed tube winter's quick change and get a ratio of 1.80 which will certainly help with my speed class. Down side is the extra weight and outboard rotors and calipers. I would prefer to have everything simple and streamlined. With a closed tube I can also install a differential.
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2016, 12:27:55 PM »

What's this class 1 or class 2 you're talking about? Those sure don't sound like SCTA classes. It sounds like you're talking maybe FIA which is a totally different thing and you're looking at totally different events.

Pete
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« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2016, 01:31:20 PM »

what kind of tranny--if any---what shaft speed will you be working with?
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2016, 01:34:52 PM »

PJ, the rule book on turbine cars has any body configuration, not restricted to streamliners.
class 1under 1099 lbs.
class 2 1100 to 2200 lbs.
class 3 2201 and over
The records for each class is listed, however I believe the FIA is different.
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Glen
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TransTurbine
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« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2016, 01:54:35 PM »

Yes they are indeed SCTA Classes. I would not be using any transmission. The Gas turbine is a turboshaft with free turbine power section. No transmission is needed. The quick change rear will mount right up to the bell housing on the turbine. At 100 percent the turbine's output shaft will be 6000 rpm. I plan on using 17" wheels with tires with an OD of approximately 26" as long as M/H tires will be acceptable. That is a topic for another day. Based on these parameters with a rear end ratio of 2.19, I will have a potential top speed of 212 mph. This speed would certainly not break any records. This gear ratio is the highest I can go with an open tube rear. Now I can switch over to a closed tube quick change rear and get a 1.80 ratio which would get me to a potential speed of 257.90 mph which is indeed capable of setting a new record. I would like to build the car with record breaking capability however this will be my first time driving at Bonneville and I am mainly interested in the learning experience and build. Certainly a 200 plus mph run would be a great accomplishment. I would love any suggestions of a rear that could get me into a higher ratio than the proposed 1.80. I am not set on a quick change, yet the convenience to change ratios sounds nice. As always any suggestions or feedback would greatly be appreciated.
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