Author Topic: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....  (Read 37574 times)

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Offline Sumner

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Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« on: April 26, 2016, 08:55:30 PM »
Overall I've felt that the past salt laydown efforts started in the late 1990's have had a positive effect.  Before the laydown was started the course really started to go to hell in the mid 1990's but then seemed to improve as the laydown project was implemented.  Now it seems to of reversed that trend again.

I'm wondering if one reason for this is the use of the alluvial fan wells that are used to supply the water to move the salt in the laydown effort.



The diagram above shows the position of those wells just to the west of the BSF.  There is a description of the whole laydown here...

http://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/ut/salt_lake_fo/bonneville_salt_flats/salt_laydown_project.Par.91807.File.dat/White_GSL_2002.pdf

If you read the 2012 paper located here and go to page 23 where the paper discusses the "Alluvial Fan Aquifer" ....

https://www.blm.gov/ut/enbb/files/Intrepid_Potash_Final_EA_FONSI_DR.pdf



....From the above it seems clear that the alluvial fan aquifer is connected to the shallow brine aquifer that is under the salt we race on.  Normally, the days before the pumping, the alluvial fan aquifer flowed into the shallow brine aquifer.  Now with the pumping that flow has been halted and actually reversed as shown by the high salinity that is now present in the alluvial fan wells as described above.

If the shallow brine aquifer is saturated with salt then the salt on the race surface can't migrate into it and will stay there, as it has for eons.  If the shallow brine aquifer is allowed to flow into the ditches going to Intrepid or is drawn towards and into the alluvial fan wells and pumped to Intrepid salt will then migrate from the race surface down into the shallow brine aquifer and on to Intrepid in one of the two ways just mentioned.

With that in mind I believe that further pumping of the alluvial fan wells will just add to the removal of salt from the race surface.  The report above also validates that, noting that the water from the wells will become saline to the point that the water won't be able to take much salt into solution from the ponds south of the interstate.

The solution as I see it would be obtaining the water for the laydown from another source, possibly alluvial fan wells further to the west or another location to the south of Intrepid if there is water there.

One last comment and it is on reclamation.  My reading of the contracts between Intrepid and the BLM does not mention reclaiming the salt flats by returning the salt from south of the highway but only requires them to fill in ditches and plug the alluvial fan wells as mentioned above and remove other evidence of mining.  No requirement to move the salt south of the interstate to back north of the interstate.

Take the time and read the two documents mentioned above and here are some other interesting documents that Intrepid puts out.  Go to the sections on their Wendover operations...

http://investors.intrepidpotash.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=218952&p=irol-SECText&TEXT=aHR0cDovL2FwaS50ZW5rd2l6YXJkLmNvbS9maWxpbmcueG1sP2lwYWdlPTgwNzU2OTYmRFNFUT0xJlNFUT0zNiZTUURFU0M9U0VDVElPTl9QQUdFJmV4cD0mc3Vic2lkPTU3

http://investors.intrepidpotash.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=218952&p=irol-SECText&TEXT=aHR0cDovL2FwaS50ZW5rd2l6YXJkLmNvbS9maWxpbmcueG1sP2lwYWdlPTkzODg1MDUmRFNFUT0xJlNFUT0zNyZTUURFU0M9U0VDVElPTl9QQUdFJmV4cD0mc3Vic2lkPTU3

They are pulling product from the ditches that drain the shallow aquifer water.  As they do that salt in solution (the salt goes underwater most all winters) carries the race surface salt down into the aquifer and disappears from the surface.  The laydown in the past has helped to replace that salt as the papers show but if even more salt is pulled off by the wells in the alluvial fan then we might be back to a net loss,

Sumner
« Last Edit: April 27, 2016, 11:19:16 AM by Sumner »

Offline Sumner

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2016, 09:32:06 PM »
Also of interest in the reports is that the salt laydown is beneficial to Intrepid financially in that they don't have to develop new evaporation ponds.

Page 13 here... https://www.blm.gov/ut/enbb/files/Intrepid_Potash_Final_EA_FONSI_DR.pdf ..



.... and page 6 here.... https://www.blm.gov/ut/enbb/files/Intrepid_Potash_Final_EA_FONSI_DR.pdf



Sumner

Offline Bob Drury

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2016, 01:44:15 AM »
  Thanx Sum, the plot thickens...  :-P   Bob
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Offline crawford

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2016, 11:11:09 AM »
Wow! You guys have way to much time, you should come out here more often and see whats really going on.
Current Mayor of Wendover Utah, and life long race fan. owns Wendover Carquest auto-parts.

Offline Sumner

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2016, 11:21:23 AM »
Wow! You guys have way to much time, you should come out here more often and see whats really going on.

Been going for 25 years and have seen what is going on.  What part of the above reports from the BLM are you in disagreement on?

Sumner

Offline jl222

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2016, 12:26:45 PM »
Wow! You guys have way to much time, you should come out here more often and see whats really going on.

  So what is going on? Come out more often? We can't even get on the salt once a year.

  Hey mike you ever test the amount of salt in the brine solution to see if were being B,Sh..ted.

  After all these years of pumping where's the salt? You seem to know it all where is it?

  JL222

Offline DaveB

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2016, 01:10:40 PM »
I read thru Crawford's posts. One of the patterns is obvious. Take a personal shot then try to belittle racers because they do not live in Wendover.

I think it's excellent that Sumner is trying to reconcile the BLM's words with his experience looking at the salt.
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Offline kiwi belly tank

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2016, 02:59:27 PM »
Wow! You guys have way to much time, you should come out here more often and see whats really going on.

OK Mike, since you are going out there so much, why don't you let us know when it's dry enough to inspect & we will take a trip & see what's really going on.
  Sid.

Offline John Burk

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2016, 04:06:58 PM »
Thank you Sum for your research . No wonder the racing surface is disappearing . It's going west to Reilly's wells and south to Reilly's plant . Hope Sum's research doesn't get lost in squabbles between right thinking friend of LSR .

Offline manta22

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2016, 04:17:25 PM »
If you go back to that panel discussion video that was posted earlier, you'll see some very interesting "body language" going on.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Ron Gibson

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2016, 04:42:28 PM »
Neil
Where is the video you were referring to?

Ron
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Offline kiwi belly tank

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Offline manta22

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2016, 06:00:42 PM »
Neil
Where is the video you were referring to?

Ron

Ron;

It is this one: https://youtu.be/diWS_qYD458

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Offline Ron Gibson

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2016, 06:07:21 PM »
Thanks Sid,
  I saw that last week and didn't have time to read it before I had to go to work, then forgot about it. This memory thing and getting old  ain't what it's cracked up to be.
  After seeing pictures of the salt last year part of me says racing ain't going to happen and the other part of me says BS, so I just bought a Jerico to help the cause if we get to run. :-D

Ron
Life is an abrasive. Whether you get ground away or polished to a shine depends on what you are made of.

Offline Ron Gibson

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Re: Thoughts on the present lay-down project.....
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2016, 06:08:41 PM »
Thanks to you too, Neil.

Ron
Life is an abrasive. Whether you get ground away or polished to a shine depends on what you are made of.