Landracing Forum Home
October 19, 2017, 11:14:40 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: A New Governing Body with new rules - WLSRA  (Read 7296 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
TrickyDicky
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 60
Location: London, UK
Posts: 367





Ignore
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2016, 08:54:32 AM »


...

the same strange answer with Al Teague's kilo record from 1991....the 425 mph....albeit it looks that this speed is wrong...and maybe they can correct the list.....the answer was....

"it is so in record list and we let them so in the record list".....great for all the racers who like to break the record in this category....

Hope you can now understand why I wrote this earlier note....


we not have to understand the FIA grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin


In my imaginary world there is a filing cabinet (or a room full of filing cabinets) containing all the paperwork relating to all records recognised by the FIA.

It should therefore be possible to revisit the calculations that resulted in the 425 mph speed, identify the error(s), recalculate and publish the revised record with apologies to all involved.

Tom Burkland took Al's mile class record in 2008 and probably should also have been credited with the kilo record from the same runs.  Is he bothered?
Logged
kiwi belly tank
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 166
Location: Lava Hot Springs Idaho
Posts: 2219




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2016, 10:50:40 AM »

Al wasn't even aware of the kilo record until FIA posted it & we both went "What!!" How the hell did they come up with that!
Speedo's still read in MPH in the U.S. & most people here don't even know how long a kilometer is, it's just not a measuring stick we use.
How much is a litre of gas right now? I dunno! It's a buck-89 a gallon.
  Sid.
Logged
TrickyDicky
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 60
Location: London, UK
Posts: 367





Ignore
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2016, 11:46:18 AM »

...
How much is a litre of gas right now?
...

About £1 at the moment.   cheesy

But it's still much more expensive in the UK compared to USA.  And we don't agree on the size of a gallon ...
Logged
TrickyDicky
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 60
Location: London, UK
Posts: 367





Ignore
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2016, 11:51:27 AM »

Another question: who held the FIA class record before Al?
Logged
PorkPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Heilbronn, Germany
Posts: 1604


think fast.....always




Ignore
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2016, 11:52:47 AM »

Kiwi,

I'm not sure if Al was really aware of the  kilo speed....it was 1997 or 98 when Al gave me a picture of the FIA certification...I saw the kilo speed ..... in km/h...and said to him, if his aware that he run 425 mph.....his answer was "No and by the way I never run this as an average...I run this only one direction...."....

He told me that he still got the paperwork for that record....if necessary I could get them from Dave Petrali....

I contact the FIA about...I told them that this listed speed isn't right....as I wrote before....they was not interest  to correct it....and yes, especially for Tom Burkland this decision from the FIA is tough....if the kilo speed from Al had to be close to  his mile speed Tom had the chance to get both records.....
The FIA simple says....we are not making mistakes.....and the victims are the record breaker....

Louise Noeth worked a couple of years ago with the FIA to get the mess in this record lists a little bit cleaned up....and it needs her a long time....this lists are still not all right to the facts....but improved....
Logged

Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member
PorkPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Heilbronn, Germany
Posts: 1604


think fast.....always




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2016, 11:55:57 AM »

Another question: who held the FIA class record before Al?


After all the changes in the 60's with the classes and categories it was (as I wrote before) John Cobb and his Railton Special from 1947 (he had the record since 1939 and pushed them higher after WW II, setting the 47 record he was the first to break the 400 mph (one way)
Logged

Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member
Malcolm UK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 65
Location: Derby, England
Posts: 720





Ignore
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2016, 12:06:34 PM »

In my imaginary world there is a filing cabinet (or a room full of filing cabinets) containing all the paperwork relating to all records recognised by the FIA.
It should therefore be possible to revisit the calculations that resulted in the 425 mph speed, identify the error(s), recalculate and publish the revised record with apologies to all involved.

I know I often sound like a stuck record (for those of a young age we call such items as 'vinyl') .......... the paperwork should be in the offices of ACCUS in the USA, as they acted for the FIA for all records set on the lands of the USA. Someone should also know where the kilometre was located in relationship to the mile timed distance to see if such a difference in speed was credible.

The "supercharged above 8 litre record" might not have existed in the pre-war years - the use of supercharging did not change the class. (It still does not in UK National record breaking).  There was controversy over whether Al had gone fast enough to 'beat' the Summers Bros Goldenrod record until it was determined that there were by then two classes (non supercharged and supercharged). It would have been the Cobb Railton record of 394.20 mph to be beaten.
Logged

Malcolm UK, Derby, England.
Malcolm UK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 65
Location: Derby, England
Posts: 720





Ignore
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2016, 12:13:31 PM »

Now then everyone - whose FIA record did the Summers Bros (Bob driving) beat Huh
Logged

Malcolm UK, Derby, England.
Malcolm UK
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 65
Location: Derby, England
Posts: 720





Ignore
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2016, 01:06:22 PM »

Putting aside as I suggested the use of supercharging (which the German car had) the cubic capacity is recorded as being 5.6 litres, therefore it was in a 'lower' class (B) than the Goldenrod (A).

The fastest speeds on any public highway though remain to this day.

So who was the quickest in Class A unsupercharged over 8000cc prior to Goldenrod ??

Do you have any records for this period Pork Pie??
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 01:24:04 PM by Malcolm UK » Logged

Malcolm UK, Derby, England.
PorkPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Heilbronn, Germany
Posts: 1604


think fast.....always




Ignore
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2016, 01:46:53 PM »

Putting aside as I suggested the use of supercharging (which the German car had) the cubic capacity is recorded as being 5.6 litres, therefore it was in a 'lower' class than the Goldenrod.

The fastest speeds on any public highway though remain to this day.

Do you have any records for this period Pork Pie??
II 10 1 M FS 208.792 336.018 Ford Thunderbird Coupé Ford Lyn Saint James 10.10.1988 Talladega USA 7
II 10 1 M FS 221.511 356.487 SONOCO Pontiac Firebird John Baechtel 01.10.1990 Bonneville USA 8
II 10 1 M FS 320.114 515.174 Vesco / Nish Streamliner Vesco / Nish Streamliner Terry Nish 14.10.1995 Bonneville USA 9
II 10 1 M FS 340.364 547.763 Danny Boy Streamliner Thomason & Tradup Racing Richard Thomason 20.10.1999 Bonneville USA 10

II 11 1 M FS 409.277 658.667 Goldenrod Summers Bros. Bob Summers 12.11.1965 Bonneville

here the FIA record list from 2005....means before Charles Nearburg broke the Summers record.....

engine size 10 ....the record wasn't that fast and the first record at Bonneville was 1990....I'm not sure if there was a FIA record in this class before set at Bonneville....we talking here about FIA records....not SCTA.....this record, maybe was faster in 1990....

for engine size 11....means unlimited...maybe FIA forgot himself....the last N/A record in unlimited engine size (to the size classes FIA rule from 1965) was an outright record....
set in 1929 by Segrave in the Golden Arrow at Daytona (Ormond) Beach....231 mph....all other record holder (later) used engines, with a displacement they got them into the unlimited size, which run with a charger system...means blown engine.....

No idea why the FIA not shown the Segrave record....
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 01:52:55 PM by PorkPie » Logged

Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member
PorkPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Heilbronn, Germany
Posts: 1604


think fast.....always




Ignore
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2016, 01:59:41 PM »

Another question: who held the FIA class record before Al?


After all the changes in the 60's with the classes and categories it was (as I wrote before) John Cobb and his Railton Special from 1947 (he had the record since 1939 and pushed them higher after WW II, setting the 47 record he was the first to break the 400 mph (one way)

to get the Railton record confirmed as the prerecord to AL

I 11 1 M FS 394.196 634.397 Railton-Mobil Special Reid Railton John Cobb 16.09.1947 Bonneville USA 9
I 11 1 M FS 409.978 659.796 Torque Speed-o-Motive Streamliner Torque Speed-o-Motive Streamliner Elwin Teague 21.08.1991 Bonneville USA 10

Logged

Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member
TrickyDicky
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 60
Location: London, UK
Posts: 367





Ignore
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2016, 02:35:00 PM »

When did the FIA change from letters to numbers for engine classes?

Or to put it another way, was Goldenrod in Class A or Class 11 in 1965?
Logged
PorkPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Heilbronn, Germany
Posts: 1604


think fast.....always




Ignore
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2016, 02:44:43 PM »

When did the FIA change from letters to numbers for engine classes?

Or to put it another way, was Goldenrod in Class A or Class 11 in 1965?



they changed nothing....

the digital number stand for the engine size not the type.....11 stand for unlimited engine size....

the kind of engine N/A or Charged shows the roman number at the beginning of the list....

I stand for charged engine....doesn't matter if a turbo or a supercharger is used....all blown engines

II stand for N/A engine...all engine without a charger

the letters you thinking for the engine size are used for SCTA.....
also the engine sizes are not always the same number on displacement....as an example....45 ci are the same...next bigger engine is 61 ci for SCTA and 67 ci for FIA.....
Logged

Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member
TrickyDicky
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 60
Location: London, UK
Posts: 367





Ignore
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2016, 02:51:59 PM »

Thomas, I am thinking of the AIACR engine classes (introduced in 1925?) which I assumed the FIA inherited in 1946. Nothing to do with SCTA.
Logged
PorkPie
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 57
Location: Heilbronn, Germany
Posts: 1604


think fast.....always




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2016, 03:25:29 PM »

Thomas, I am thinking of the AIACR engine classes (introduced in 1925?) which I assumed the FIA inherited in 1946. Nothing to do with SCTA.


Alright, more information for better understanding

Four wheels vehicles was split into two base categories....

A = special construction....like speed record racer
B = production vehicles

in 1965 they add

C = thrust power - two different type of engine....JE = Jet....RT = Rocket...

A and B stayed for special and production....

but the type or kind of engine was split

I = charged fuel/gas engine
II = N/A fuel/gas engine

FIA makes no different between gas and fuel....

III and IV = diesel engine....

VIII = electric - split in three different weight classes...this changed last year to more weight classes...I think now 12

IX = turbine engine - split, like electric in weight classes - three - and now to more

the piston engines using than the 1 to 11 for the engine size....1 is the smallest, 11 is unlimited

before the engine size was in letters...Frank Lockhart run the Stutz Black Hawk in size D as an example......


hope this helps to understand this categories and classes world inside the FIA record rules...

it could be around 1925 when the start to use this new vehicle classes (A and B)....this was also the time when the short distance speed record vehicles became special construction....before they was regular street cars at first, than regular used race track cars, so the Sunbeam Tiger....Campbell's BlueBird (his first own built, not the 350 hp Sunbeam) was the first just for record breaking built car...and so this first bigger chance in the rules makes sense....
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 03:35:14 PM by PorkPie » Logged

Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page October 13, 2017, 08:39:50 AM