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Author Topic: 1960 Dodge Dart Phoenix  (Read 17473 times)
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Polyhead
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« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2016, 08:44:05 PM »

This was at El Mirage in November.  '55 Desoto with a Duramax.  Cool build, and you wouldn't know it from the exterior, but really well done.

I want to know what he's running for axles.  Those things are real monsters.  ... also, I hope he routed the exaughst through the bumper.  I kept thinking about a diesel swap in the phoenix, and then run the exaughst out the backup light holes in the bumper.  Rolling coal out of the bumper would just be cool... crap performance of course, but cool.
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 12:28:27 AM »

Suffice to say that we're looking at one desperately underpowered motor home.

Doesn't mean it's not very hip - but I recall touring the Black Hills in a VW Vanagon, 7 people on board.

You could count the guardrail posts as we slowly slinked by.

But back to the Dodge.

Am I to judge by your handle that we'll be seeing a Poly head Mopar under the hood? 


Those vans were much lighter than you would think, about 4500lbs fully laden.  All aluminum monocoque center section with lexan windows and a fiberglass nose and tail.  With the kitchen/bathroom removed and all the tanks empty they weigh in around 3400lbs.  In other words, actually lighter than the car!  They actually kind of haul Acura... you know... for a 22ft RV with an air cooled engine...Till you hit 50mph and the aerodynamics come into play.  Then it's like 70mph down a 6% grade with the throttle on the floor.

Something else that should be mentioned is that... with 12" of foam and blankets and 20ft of distance between you and the engine, you don't hear it at all.. i mean not a single bit!  Along with that slip-n-slide powerglide trans in it, it's like driving an electric car.  Then there is the crazy crazy big windshield on it.  The only way to get a better view is to be on a motorcycle.  You just can't appreciate the view out of the front of one of those till you've been in one.  Then of course you realize that you're riding in what amounts to a canoe shell at 55mph and that the crumple zones are your knees.  One wrong move and you'll be enjoying the view of a honda in your lap.

But back on the dodge, yes.  Just ordered one of Chrysler Powers brandy new small production run, air gap style intake for a 318 poly.  Next step after that is fitted is to start adapting the LA mopar paxton kit to the poly.  This actually fixes several problem areas.  My era of poly had no harmonic balancer.  But if I add an LA one, which is easy to get, I get some pully misalignment.  Well I'm not keen on the generator, would rather have alternator, but that's a pain to replace a well.  BUT the paxton kit has it's own alternator bracket built onto the blower bracket!  I can knock in a couple of holes on the blower bracket and the drilled/tapped holes on the heads of the poly will then be usable, move some spacers around and make new ones here and there, and viola, I get an alternator, spaced for LA style pulleys, which then allows me to run an LA harmonic balancer, and a saginaw power steering pump intended for an LA application, and probably the LA engines aluminum water pump.  And I get boost... because, freakin' everthing is better with boost.

This engine received a rebuild in the early 90's and then got parked.  it's in excellent condition, no visible wear in the bores (I had the heads off to be sure), even some of the hone cross hatching is still visible!  One problem.... they used LA 318 pistons in it.. reducing it's compression ratio to only 8.2:1  (if my math is right... I own a set of depth mics, i'm fairly confident.)  So it's rip apart an engine that isn't destroyed just to uprate the compression, so I can destroy it, or, boost it till it detonates.....No reason to throw pistons away that don't have holes in them! (yet)

I still need to find a header shop to make some headers for me, or, buy a tig machine and roll my own.  At this point, with the hassle of trying to make this work, I may make my own.  That said, I keep getting this idea that ends up with a header that would require removal of a torsion bar to install.  If it were a drag car I would have just cut holes in the fenders and dumped it over board out the wheel wells high and mighty style....

Anyway, intake is scheduled to arrive next week.... $600 for that Dodge thing...
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 12:32:53 AM »

If I remember from the foggy past your Dodge will not be the first one. I think that a fellow named Norm Thatcher ran one when it was new with maybe a 413 and ran over 180 and he might have come back with a 6-71 on it and gone faster. I am sure that some of the "old" guys that have been around for a while, Glen or Freud?? remember.

Rex   

I've got the Wiend Add featuring his car hanging on my wall!  Along with an extensive collection of photos of his cars and engines.  The thing I don't have is ANY details on the car.  where was his weight box, did he have a weight box? how much weight? What trans? what did the cage look like?  How did he keep the hood from comming off.

I have been able to work out from the photos that his hood scoop was just a piece of pipe cut in half and then welded to the top of the hood.  I'm going to reproduce that just for shits and giggles, although it may not pass for c/cpro if I do this, I'll just have to run my "good" hood that isn't cut up at bonne.
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2016, 12:43:28 PM »

As I recall, the DeSoto had most of the diesel truck,s chassis.  It runs Time Only.
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« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2016, 04:48:49 PM »

As I recall, the DeSoto had most of the diesel truck,s chassis.  It runs Time Only.

That's kind of what I was thinking.  Sure look like truck wheels and axles to me.  I don't follow when you say it runs time only.
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2016, 05:17:55 PM »

I believe that because of body and chassis modifications, it doesn't fall into any specific SCTA category.

No, there isn't a class for everything -- but most can run SCTA events under the Time Only category if they meet specific safety requirements (and often a speed limit).
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« Reply #21 on: January 12, 2016, 11:36:00 PM »

EXNER MOPARS ARE THE COOLEST!  cheers
I also love the Exner MOPARS! I've got a '55 Lancer project (not race) car in the garage. I'll be following this one.
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« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2016, 09:08:36 PM »

Most people don't get too excited over a 4bbl aluminum intake arriving... but the world of polyshperical engines is weird.


Looks amazing, the entire underside of the manifold is milled, which is weird.  They seriously could have done a better job deburring this thing though.  All of the pipe threads have serious burrs at the thread leads, all of the ports have serious burrs inside the ports and there are burrs all the way around.  Nobody deburred this thing!  Certainly wouldn't fly where I work.  Anyway... time to get a file and get to work.
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 09:18:10 PM »

          Typical hot rod stuff: Some modification required".

     Doug  cheers cheers cheers
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« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2016, 09:45:22 PM »

They seriously could have done a better job deburring this thing though.  All of the pipe threads have serious burrs at the thread leads, all of the ports have serious burrs inside the ports and there are burrs all the way around.  Nobody deburred this thing!  Certainly wouldn't fly where I work.  Anyway... time to get a file and get to work.

About 20 years ago, Edelbrock sent me a Performer 390 manifold with the same issue.  I spent an hour just getting it to the point where it was safe to handle without chainmaille gloves.

          Typical hot rod stuff: Some modification required".

     Doug  cheers cheers cheers

Just once, though, wouldn't it be nice to receive a finished part?

Would any of us accept a television from Best Buy that needed the receiver circuit soldered into place?

If any of us walked into Home Depot and left with a Weber Grill, would it be too much to expect that is has paint on it, or that the grate is chromed?

Not beating up on you, Doug, but why are we as racers expected to accept half baked products?

 
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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2016, 07:56:58 AM »

They seriously could have done a better job deburring this thing though.  All of the pipe threads have serious burrs at the thread leads, all of the ports have serious burrs inside the ports and there are burrs all the way around.  Nobody deburred this thing!  Certainly wouldn't fly where I work.  Anyway... time to get a file and get to work.

About 20 years ago, Edelbrock sent me a Performer 390 manifold with the same issue.  I spent an hour just getting it to the point where it was safe to handle without chainmaille gloves.

          Typical hot rod stuff: Some modification required".

     Doug  cheers cheers cheers

Just once, though, wouldn't it be nice to receive a finished part?

Would any of us accept a television from Best Buy that needed the receiver circuit soldered into place?

If any of us walked into Home Depot and left with a Weber Grill, would it be too much to expect that is has paint on it, or that the grate is chromed?

Not beating up on you, Doug, but why are we as racers expected to accept half baked products?

 

In my experience most televisions DO need the receiver circuit sorted!  Not to mention the power supplies.  I can hear the power supplies on most LCD screens 3 or 4 blocks away splattering all over 20 and 40 meters!  They wipe out half the HF spectrum in some cases!  But I degress, i'm just being a nit picking ham.

anyway, for $600 ($700 landed) they could have paid someone to take a file to this thing.  It's dangerous to handle for the layman I would think.  Being a machinist I know to watch for sharp spots on any machine aluminum surface, others though.... If someone gets sued, I won't be shocked.
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2016, 10:51:22 AM »

Ben, would really love to see that special single plane "POLY" intake, could you repost the pic please?
How much did it end up costing you ?
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2016, 01:22:20 PM »

Ben, would really love to see that special single plane "POLY" intake, could you repost the pic please?
How much did it end up costing you ?
https://goo.gl/photos/WYPNzCJy5dcL8cV78

Not sure why the link is broken...

It's actually a large plenum dual plane.  It's made by the same folks that make the hot heads early hemi stuff.  Apparently it's been tweaked by tom Hoover as well as others for the poly engine.  The runners ate pretty generous.  I'll use spacers under the carb to lift it till the hood barely closes and it should do pretty well.

Any way try that link.
Cost delivered was $700
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Ben 'Polyhead' Smith
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2016, 02:57:14 PM »

This thing is fighting me. I am trying to post some examples of FI manifolds That I made for my Plymouth four cylinder. The larger TBs are from a 4.6 Ford and the smaller from a 750 Suzuki GSX. I used to be able to get these things for $15-$20 each. But now they seem to be going more for $50. I don't know why. Also a old 331 Chrysler Hilborn FI half that I cut up. turned sideways and put on a Lotus 907. (Jensen-Healy).


* TB Ford.JPG (131.71 KB, 572x429 - viewed 172 times.)

* dumb fiel share.jpg (110.51 KB, 692x519 - viewed 156 times.)

* IMG12.jpg (45.7 KB, 320x240 - viewed 169 times.)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 03:06:16 PM by RichFox » Logged
gearheadeh
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2016, 04:51:12 PM »

Thanks Ben, That was the one I thought you had, I forgot it was dual plane, unlike the last aftermarket intake which was made by Weiand many decades ago. That Weiand one was just a single four knock off of the Factory dual quad, weird cause the intake divides the left and right bank makes your V8 into 2--- 4 cylinders.

 great if you want a lumpy idle... grin
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