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Author Topic: G/F class lakester in Wichita, Kansas  (Read 37996 times)
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tauruck
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« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2016, 10:46:49 PM »

I don't think you'll have any problems with the Hewland box.

Some really nice ratios for them if you can still get them. cheers cheers cheers
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« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2016, 11:06:30 PM »


Looking at your chassis I like the two part idea but it also looks like your body will be of the "gutter and down spout" design, i.e. flat side panels with a flat bottom similar to a rear engine dragster. Not the most aero but that dynamite engine may make up for the non optimal shape. Keep us up to date, great build and love the concept.

Rex

Rex, I am curious what you might consider an optimal lakester shape... but maybe that needs its own thread...I recall a lot of successful lakesters are your garden variety "gutter and downspout design".  Thinking a lot of the 300 MPH lakesters are flat sided...

John, looking good, guess I should come visit in person  cheers
Stainless, you know you are welcome anytime.

John
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ggl205
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« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2016, 11:08:11 PM »

I don't think you'll have any problems with the Hewland box.

Some really nice ratios for them if you can still get them. cheers cheers cheers
Fortunately, I have all sets made left over from the road racing days.

John
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« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2016, 01:25:51 AM »

Most Hewlands behind small(er) engines are reliable to the point of boredom.   But once you exceed the design input levels of torque and rpm, things tend to go downhill quickly.

The "rhino" case is helping "elevate" the max torque the box can handle.   I'm thinking you "might" be close to the edge though.    Checking ring and pinion wear should be a regular inspection.   Use a small inspection camera inserted through the original drain plug, now on top of the R & P section.   You might have to drain the gear lube.   Genuine Hewland R & P sets hold up the best, if they are still available.   We had lots of problems with Mk 9's behind YC's, until we upgraded to "rhino" cases.   They were then, just acceptable.    The drivers were not the easiest on the gearboxes though . . . . . .

And 1st and 2nd gears might be an issue at elevated torque input.    I'd run the integrated shaft 1st gears only, and I would run as tall a 2nd gear as the car will stand.   2nd gears tend to break in the small section(s) between the bottom of the gear teeth and the tops of the shaft splines where the gears are broached for the splines of the 1st gear shaft.    The small section there tends to be weak and can not withstand excessive torque for its' size.   Taller gear ratios are thicker there.    You will want to look carefully at both 1st & 2nd gears, anytime the gearbox is apart.    A tipoff is: if the 2nd gear becomes difficult to "slide off the 1st gear shaft", it is probably distorted, and should be discarded.   Every "distorted" gear I've ever seen, has failed "magnaflux".   The 1st gear shaft can become "twisted" as well.    The tipoff is that the other gears, (2nd, 3rd, etc) will not slide easily on the shaft splines.   That is the discard point.

And I think it is important to note that gearbox "wear" varies with a driver's "driving style".    The old Indy joke was that Rick Mears never broke gearbox pieces, but Mario Andretti could break a Hewland just by walking by it . . . . . .

YMMV

 cheers
Fordboy
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« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2016, 06:50:19 AM »

Fordboy, all good advice and I do plan on a thorough inspection of the box when I get it back. The R&P in the box now is a genuine Hewland and has just a few passes on it since new. I will keep my fingers crossed.

On another subject; I noticed you are from northern Illinois. About three years ago, we moved from Cary, Illinois (just below Crystal Lake) where I retired from AERA (Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association). We loved it there and made some lasting friendships in neighboring Kenosha, WI. Weather could be a little rough but tolerable. I raced Lola cars at surrounding tracks and found proximity to the Newman-Hass Racing quite handy.

John
« Last Edit: January 04, 2016, 09:44:37 AM by ggl205 » Logged
Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2016, 03:12:05 PM »

Stainless,
I know that there are many flat sided "top fuel" shaped lakesters that have gone fast, in fact very fast,I think that "Fast Freddy" right about 380 mph, but you will agree that most of them have a blown huge motor bolted in the back which would probably make almost any shape fast. I do have an opinion on the optimum lakester shape but as you said it should probably be discussed in a thread of it's own.

Rex
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« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2016, 06:26:17 PM »

Stainless,
I know that there are many flat sided "top fuel" shaped lakesters that have gone fast, in fact very fast,I think that "Fast Freddy" right about 380 mph, but you will agree that most of them have a blown huge motor bolted in the back which would probably make almost any shape fast. I do have an opinion on the optimum lakester shape but as you said it should probably be discussed in a thread of it's own.

Rex
Rex, I would think it fare to discuss pros and cons of my lakester body here on this thread. I looked at a number of different shapes that were practical to build and made my dissision based on a few simple factors. First, I wanted air to flow faster over the top and sides than it does under the car. This is pretty easy to do so flat bottom it is (I like pressure differentials so long as they work in my favor). Secondly, I wanted air to flow over the body as laminar as possible so no torturous paths. Slab sides work pretty well in doing this and makes it easy to contain any spill that may occur. Thirdly, it had to be something I could make without spending a fortune. I accept the fact my lakester is not aerodynamically optimal but then which ones are? Keeping a few basic aero features in mind can generate positive effects. Sure hope I can get it right enough.

John
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« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2016, 04:05:05 AM »

On another subject; I noticed you are from northern Illinois. About three years ago, we moved from Cary, Illinois (just below Crystal Lake) where I retired from AERA (Automotive Engine Rebuilders Association). We loved it there and made some lasting friendships in neighboring Kenosha, WI. Weather could be a little rough but tolerable. I raced Lola cars at surrounding tracks and found proximity to the Newman-Hass Racing quite handy.

John

I know Cary well.   My wife & I had a school friend who lived there for years.    And my oldest son has just moved to Pleasant Prairie WI.   And of course I have spent countless hours @ Road America, etc.    My engine shop was in Wauconda IL, still there in fact, still run by my ex-partner.

When you live close to a border, you end up operating over and across it a lot.    I grew up a big winter sports guy and loved the weather.     Now, not so much.    But I'm not ready to move as 3 of my kids and my wife's close family still live here.    So I guess I'll have to tune-up the snow blower occasionally . . . . . .    and install a heater in the garage . . . . .

 cheers
Fordboy
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« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2016, 04:03:05 PM »

Stainless,
I know that there are many flat sided "top fuel" shaped lakesters that have gone fast, in fact very fast,I think that "Fast Freddy" right about 380 mph, but you will agree that most of them have a blown huge motor bolted in the back which would probably make almost any shape fast. I do have an opinion on the optimum lakester shape but as you said it should probably be discussed in a thread of it's own.

Rex
Rex, I would think it fare to discuss pros and cons of my lakester body here on this thread. I looked at a number of different shapes that were practical to build and made my dissision based on a few simple factors. First, I wanted air to flow faster over the top and sides than it does under the car. This is pretty easy to do so flat bottom it is (I like pressure differentials so long as they work in my favor). Secondly, I wanted air to flow over the body as laminar as possible so no torturous paths. Slab sides work pretty well in doing this and makes it easy to contain any spill that may occur. Thirdly, it had to be something I could make without spending a fortune. I accept the fact my lakester is not aerodynamically optimal but then which ones are? Keeping a few basic aero features in mind can generate positive effects. Sure hope I can get it right enough.

John

John,
Your intentions are well stated, lower pressure beneath the car and laminar flow over the car but you need to do some thinking regarding how you intend to do both. Flat bottom cars need to be at extremely low ground clearance to limit  air under the car probably less than 3/4 of an inch. With any type of suspension this would be difficult. To generate down force you need to have the air under the car accelerated to a velocity higher than the air going over the car (Bernoulli's law verifies this) so you may want to think harder about your ride height. Laminar flow is always the very lowest drag but long flat panels do not promote long runs of laminar flow and also flat panels unless they are very stiff like to deform from the aero forces (look a the bodies of top fuel cars at 300 mph none of them are flat!) this deformation will not provide laminar flow.  Laminar flow can be translated into turbulent flow by protrusions as small as .010 inches or even less. Getting the aero right on a lakester , in my opinion, requires close attention to details and especially to the wheels/tires and their selection, placement and any aero attachments that you may conceive along with a proper body design that will promote laminar flow and a general attention to fit and finish.

Rex
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« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2016, 06:47:02 PM »

Rex:

My target mph is in the 230's. Body distortions shouldn't be much at that speed or at least they were not for my first lakester. That car had an all aluminum body and was quite angular. Let's face it, front wheel location is never going to be optimal and I would be happy to just be able to effectively manage tire wake. As I see it, I either go narrow and tall or small and wide for tires. I chose narrow and tall (21"X 3") for front tires. If I build the body I have in mind, the top will be more rounded but converge to slab sides. If I knew where to put them, I would use vortex generators to keep air moving along those straight sides. I believe I mentioned my ride height will be between .500" and 1.50" depending on track surface. Rex, I use pretty stiff springs for the sole purpose of holding ride height at target speed. With a .500" suspension travel (or less). I should be OK with air flow under the car and enough travel for my dampers to work correctly in bump and rebound. I almost bit my lip when mentioning laminar air flow for a lakester but it does have its place. I haven't worked out those details yet and may take a few attempts to understand all that I will be working with for the new car. But that is the appeal of LSR racing for me; all those little unknowns that make themselves visible at the most inconvenient times (lol).

John
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« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2016, 12:11:25 PM »

Rex:
Ask "Woody" (Dave Woodruff) to send you files depicting streamline velocities, pressures and orientations for the BUB streamliner body. That too is slab sided and manages to hold straight air streams over the entire side area. If lucky, I will be using a narrowed and cut down copy of this body.

John
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« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2016, 02:21:40 PM »

"I almost bit my lip when mentioning laminar air flow for a lakester but it does have its place"


Reminds me of an old T-shir my buddy had 

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« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2016, 05:02:57 PM »

Hah! I think more than a few of us suffer from that, Sparky.
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« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2016, 06:00:07 PM »

"I almost bit my lip when mentioning laminar air flow for a lakester but it does have its place"


Reminds me of an old T-shir my buddy had 

I have given up on reality by I refuse to give up my fantasy

Sparky, I believe that you can have laminar flow on a lakester body if you place the front axle properly and "aero" it correctly. Obviously laminar flow on the wheels is not possible.

Rex
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« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2016, 12:42:44 PM »

So this begs the question:  Where should the front axle be place on a Lakester?
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