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Author Topic: Rebuttal to Bonneville Salt Loss  (Read 17407 times)
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Dynoroom
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« on: October 13, 2015, 12:21:49 PM »

Ron Main forwarded this email to me this morning. Thought you might like to see what other people think about the depletion of the Bonneville Salt Flats...




By William White

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3014279-155/op-ed-speed-week-cancellation-does-not

 

First Published Oct 09 2015 01:36PM        Last Updated Oct 09 2015 01:36 pm

William White

Sadly, 2015 Speed Week and World of Speed events were cancelled by the racing community due to undesirable surface conditions (partially dissolved surface salt-crust layer or stratum) that prevented establishment of a race course having sufficient length required for record setting.

Some members of the public believe that this year's poor racing surface is proof of purported Bonneville Salt Flats deterioration and that it is solely due to brine extraction by a potash mining company. They also believe that U.S. Bureau of Land Management has not been sufficiently rigorous in its protection of the salt flats. Disputing facts follow.

All potash production from the salt flats prior to 1963 was from private land south of Interstate 80, which was patented between 1917 and 1927 under the 1872 mining law. Potash production north of I-80 from collection ditches on the eastern margin of the flats, is from a federal lease issued by BLM in 1963; production is a small percentage of total annual production. This lease was issued prior to the 1969 National Environmental Policy Act with its requirements to consider impacts to the environment. The federal lease is a valid existing right subject to specific conditions set forth in the lease.

It is indisputable that surface salt-crust stratum conditions are changed this year from previous drought-influenced years. May 2015 was wettest on record during the 1997 - 2015 period (Western Regional Climate Center, www.wrcc.dri.edu/). Although surface salt-crust stratum has changed this year, overall mass and volume of the salt flats remains relatively unchanged. This is based on BLM salt crust thickness studies conducted in 1988, 2003, and field-checked in 2015.

The 2003 study concluded that there was virtually no change in salt crust mass and volume during the 15-year period between 1988 and 2003 when the same measurement method was used. Since there was no change in volume, purported annual depletion rate of 1.1 percent generated from the 1988 study was shown to be invalid. Consequently, perception that Bonneville Salt Flats is disappearing at this erroneous depletion rate is unsupportable based on thickness data and volume calculations from the 2003 study.

Responding to the racing community's concerns, BLM and University of Utah geologists examined salt-crust exposures at mile posts 3 and 5 of Speed Week's 2015 proposed race course. During the July 15 examination, they observed that surface salt-crust stratum had thinned, become soft and slushy in some areas, and like scattered popcorn in others, exposing underlying thin gypsum stratum. However, when BLM augered bore holes adjacent to each mile post, they measured an additional 2 to 3 feet of salt thickness present beneath the thin, 0.5 to 1-inch thick gypsum stratum. These thicknesses are consistent with total salt-crust thicknesses measured from nearest bore holes drilled during BLM's 2003 salt-crust thickness study.

BLM engaged in a cooperative agreement with two potash mining companies (Intrepid Potash Wendover, LLC and predecessor, Reilly Industries, Inc.) to conduct an experimental Salt Laydown Project to replenish salt to Bonneville Salt Flats. Between 1997 and 2012, an estimated 9.8 million tons of sodium-chloride salt were transferred from company private land to the salt flats north of I-80. Since 2012, another 1.5 million tons have been added for a total of 11.3 million tons to date.

BLM's monitoring and data collection from the Laydown experiment and the subsequent 2003 salt-crust thickness study produced three peer-reviewed published papers, which assessed the Salt Laydown Project's efficacy (see "Salt Flats Research," www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/bonneville_salt_flats.html).

Based on these published papers and review of Intrepid's 2006 mining and reclamation plan, BLM mandated that Intrepid continue the Salt Laydown Project for life of lease. Intrepid is also required to quantify and report salt tonnage being withdrawn from federal-lease collection ditches. Furthermore, tonnage extracted from federal-lease collection ditches north of I-80 may not exceed tonnage being replaced through the Salt Laydown Project, and Intrepid must perform a salt-crust thickness study similar to BLM's 2003 study by 2018.

Intrepid recently contracted with Brenda Bowen, Associate Professor, Geology & Geophysics, University of Utah, to conduct the 2018 salt-crust thickness study. BLM will use results of the 2018 study to determine if additional mitigating measures will be necessary in management and protection of Bonneville Salt Flats.

William White is a registered professional geologist (Idaho & Utah), and was BLM's physical scientist responsible for monitoring and assessing progress of the Salt Laydown Project from 1997 through 2007.
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« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2015, 12:58:46 PM »

Hmmmmmm  lets see if I got this right?

BLM  in charge of Resource  contracts extraction rights to commercial venture

 who then Pays a College Professor to "asses" the condition of the Resource and write a report on how well the resource is doing

the BLM employee then "ASSES" the "asses report" and then write an article and let every one know they can't believe
 their lying eyes-- that they "HAVE" the truth and are reporting it!

Yep I think I got it, I must have lyin eyes!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 06:18:36 AM by SPARKY » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2015, 01:16:21 PM »

  It would be nice to know If any "independent" geologists or spectator's were allowed to witness the July 15, 2015 "tests" or if the University of Utah receives or received any compensation for their past and present "help" with studies and findings or if in fact they only provided manual labor (as in "lackey's").
  I don't recall that any of Russ or Sid's drill holes mentioned "two to three feet of salt thickness under less than one inch of gypsum stratum at the three and five mile".
  Maybe they didn't count the two feet of bull sh*t that the public has been fed by the BLM for the last fifty years.
  The question remains:  WHERE HAS TWO TO THREE FEET OF SALT DISSAPEARED TO SINCE 1960?
                                                                                               Bob Drury
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 01:56:23 PM by Bob Drury » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2015, 01:23:33 PM »

If one reads the last sentence describing who the author is, I have to think he's simply covering his a$$. The article lacks credibility big time.

Pete
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« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2015, 01:43:52 PM »

Well if things continue as they are going right now Brenda will have an easy job. There wont be any salt crust to measure!!
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« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2015, 01:55:20 PM »

Hope he was well paid for selling his integrity to write this piece of misinformation!

Bill
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« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2015, 02:21:17 PM »

People like this just dont seem to understand that the additional salt needs to be on the SURFACE.
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« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2015, 03:01:44 PM »

  One more observation:  The 2018 date of the next Salt Crust Survey contracted by the BLM and to be carried out Brenda Bowen, associate professor of Geology and Geophysics, University of Utah sounds like BLM funding of a hired gun using their Title for private work.  I don't see any collusion possible here...............
  Please tell Me that this isn't the same "smiling faced non-committal spokesperson" who took part in the original Salt Lake City Tribune Round Table Discussion which coincidently the BLM was invited to and was "unable" to attend...............................
  o.k., I lied... Does this mean that the BLM intends to do nothing until they receive the report of the 2018 Survey or should I go back to sleep?
                                                                                                               Bob Drury
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 03:04:44 PM by Bob Drury » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2015, 03:21:31 PM »

Did I read that correctly? BLM will wait until 2018 to conduct another "study" to determine if the BSF is being depleted? Nothing will happen until then?
I hope Save the Salt responds to this "expert's" opinion.

Don
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« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2015, 04:44:33 PM »






By William White

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/3014279-155/op-ed-speed-week-cancellation-does-not

 

First Published Oct 09 2015 01:36PM        Last Updated Oct 09 2015 01:36 pm

William White

Responding to the racing community's concerns, BLM and University of Utah geologists examined salt-crust exposures at mile posts 3 and 5 of Speed Week's 2015 proposed race course. During the July 15 examination, they observed that surface salt-crust stratum had thinned, become soft and slushy in some areas, and like scattered popcorn in others, exposing underlying thin gypsum stratum. However, when BLM augered bore holes adjacent to each mile post, they measured an additional 2 to 3 feet of salt thickness present beneath the thin, 0.5 to 1-inch thick gypsum stratum. These thicknesses are consistent with total salt-crust thicknesses measured from nearest bore holes drilled during BLM's 2003 salt-crust thickness study.


William White is a registered professional geologist (Idaho & Utah), and was BLM's physical scientist responsible for monitoring and assessing progress of the Salt Laydown Project from 1997 through 2007.

Did STS or ? have anyone present when these measurements were taken? Can we obtain the exact location or spot where these measurements were taken so we can hire someone to verify that the salt is actually that thick, and their measurements are in fact correct? Was there a video taken at the time of the measurement to prove what they say is in fact correct?

I want visual proof of the salts thickness, or someone from the racers side present when these measurements are taken for verification purposes.

Tom G.
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« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2015, 06:52:03 PM »

Do any of you skeptics and nay sayers really think a Professional Engineer, College Professor, or anyone else would lie on a document that could so easily be debunked with just a 12volt drill and a auger attachment ? Come on folks let ditch the Black Helicopter stuff and look for facts that seem to be present in the report as written.

We all might not like what we read but lets at the very least wait until someone has done a follow up to the facts presented before we throw anyone, especially a PE with his or her butt on the line under any busses.

Any yes I will be first to yell BS if their facts are bogus.


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« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2015, 07:25:25 PM »

  Ah, that would be probably about 2019 when the 2018 report would be released.
  Also, the author is retired and I am quite sure his Acura won't fall off while He is in his rocker..................  One Run, out.....................................
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« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2015, 08:22:28 PM »

Okay, so does this mean the race track is sinking, and that Mayor Crawford is correct, that we're just dealing with a layer of goo that has washed down on top of the salt?  We're elevations of the altitude of the salt measured, and if so, what were the baselines?
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« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2015, 08:25:02 PM »

JH333, ever go to court and watch professionals tell opposite opinions about the same set of facts?

Just because they have a degree does not ensure they have integrity... Think about lawyers... or any other person paid to take the facts and present the side of the folks that are paying them.  

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« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2015, 11:21:51 PM »

Do any of you skeptics and nay sayers really think a Professional Engineer, College Professor, or anyone else would lie on a document that could so easily be debunked with just a 12volt drill and a auger attachment ? Come on folks let ditch the Black Helicopter stuff and look for facts that seem to be present in the report as written.

We all might not like what we read but lets at the very least wait until someone has done a follow up to the facts presented before we throw anyone, especially a PE with his or her butt on the line under any busses.

Any yes I will be first to yell BS if their facts are bogus.


Jorge Holland
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#777 - Just looking for a place to run !!!!!!
What the hell do you think I did on Aug 3rd & found no more than 2 inches anywhere before getting into the brine mud/water table that is being pumped.
This "William White" is quoting the so called BLM test holes that supposedly produced 2 to 3 feet of salt that nobody has ever seen to my knowledge. I asked the BLM director (what ever his name is) for these locations at the Coalition meeting on the salt on Aug 24 & the answer I got was he didn't have that information with him. Are you $hitting me! Does he use a dial phone! Did they not take photographic evidence??
Has the Coalition or STS asked for this info??
Can somebody from STS or the Coalition give us an answer to this question??
In case you've been hiding under a rock Jorge, take a look at this.
  Sid.
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