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Author Topic: Our new Lakester build. Lansing Michigan  (Read 10010 times)
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javajoe79
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« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2015, 11:41:06 AM »

Sparky you are referring to the part of 3T about no unsprung A arm suspension right?  Seems a little like a grey area. Has the method in the pic been specifically banned?   I can see where you might call that an unsprung A arm suspension but you could also say it was just part of the chassis.  It's an idea I was thinking about the other day only not like that picture. I was thinking of an actual A arm setup with a "pushrod" that was solid mounted to the chassis. Aero tubing too. I have definitely read that rule many times but it never clicked with me til now. Glad to learn that.  What were the failures that have been mentioned that led to this rule? Hard to imagine that setup being weaker then a beam axle.
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TugBoat123
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« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2015, 12:03:53 PM »

Thank you all for your concern. Stuff like this is very helpful to me. If you see any other issues, please bring them to my attention. My father already sent pictures to the chief inspector and he said that we'll be fine. We were aware of the issue. Right now I'm trying to figure out what size water tank to use. I've been looking around on this website and I found a calculation to figure out flow rate. I just need to figure out what size the tank should be. Anybody have a link to something along those lines?
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2015, 01:52:52 PM »

I am going to be a little "butal" here also with respect to your front end construction and comparing it to a car we have all watched being built and has passed SCTA inspection. That car is Sparky's lakester. His front axle is a single large diameter heavy wall tube that locates the wheels quite away from the body of his car, the axle is mounted solid to the frame and has no radius rods. Without doing some calculation I would estimate that your front end design is probably 5-10 times stronger in bending in both the vertical and horizontal direction than Sparky's car. Several years ago a noted drag racing chassis builder came to Bonneville with a really beautifully built rear engine modified roadster, it was a 34 Ford body and it had a front end design very similar to yours except it at first appeard that it used 4130 aircraft aero tubing then in talking with him I found out that he had milled the parts from 4130 bar stock (nice to have a CNC mill!) so they were not tube but solid. He meet with the same resistance you are seeing here but after some conversations with the SCTA (Lee Kennedy) he was allowed to run.  As Jimmy Six said this rule was based upon the way drag race chassis are built and the whole thing should be reconsidered especially when you see a design such as yours that is obviously strong and in many ways superior to a straight axle.

Rex


* DSCN0633 (640x480).jpg (133.58 KB, 640x480 - viewed 251 times.)
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Glen
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« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2015, 02:38:15 PM »

Some years back the new owners of the Kaplan-Carr lakester got the car side ways and the A-arm axle broke off the chassis and the car flipped. This was a one inch dia. 3 piece A axle used by the drag racers at the time. It was determined that the tubing was to small and and not structurally sound for the dry lake surface. The rule at that time banned the A arm type front axle. I don't recall when it was changed but a couple of years ago I saw a A arm suspension with a duel coil over set up and as far as I know they allowed it to run because it was suspended.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2015, 03:49:54 PM by Glen » Logged

Glen
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TugBoat123
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« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2015, 02:50:26 PM »

Our chassis is being built to BNI specifications except where SCTA says differently. (For example, BNI doesn't require a full tub built around the driver, but SCTA does. So we are, of course, putting one in our car). Our chassis is being built by a company that builds 1/4 mile cars, however ours is being built with stronger, bigger, thicker tubing. It will be substantially heavier than a drag car. We provided the company with a rule book and when I visited them on Saturday, I saw that they have been going through the book a lot. They've read it over and over again and they are highlighting all sorts of sections. That tells me that they are taking it very seriously. As far as the front end goes, I am fairly confident that it should be plenty sturdy. I've seen people at Bonneville running with Anglia spindles and the spindles and bearings we are using are much bigger and stronger. We are using spindles that sprint car racers use. And, as I mentioned before, my father has already gotten permission from the chief inspector. He has "given us the go ahead" on our front end. I'm very excited to continue forward on the car. I can't wait to get the chassis/body back from Ohio and get it into the garage. I don't expect to have the car ready for the Ohio Mile in May, but I think there will be another meet in July. I hope to be ready by then. We'll see how she does. Very exciting!
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2015, 02:59:43 PM »

I've got a suggestion, sir.  When you get something in writing/email from an inspector or chief inspector or whomever -- print it out on paper and put it in your log book.  If you don't have a logbook -- you'll be getting one soon, so keep that printout handy and take it with you when you go to Bville.  Sometimes it has been known for said inspector to have forgot what he said, or the person doing the inspection right then has a question - and the guy that wrote it to you is a half-hour away.  Be safe -- print and attach it.
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TugBoat123
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« Reply #21 on: March 30, 2015, 03:04:01 PM »

My thoughts exactly, Slim.
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Stan Back
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« Reply #22 on: March 30, 2015, 03:42:36 PM »

I'm confused (what's new?).

BNI and SCTA are in the same family (they even have the same mother and father).  In essence, BNI organizes the Bonneville meets for the SCTA and turns them over to the SCTA at the drivers meeting.

Did you mean some other organization?
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« Reply #23 on: March 30, 2015, 03:53:35 PM »

Tug, It's hard to tell from the pictures, and I am no expert by any stretch, but your scrub radius looks mighty hefty. Unless you are running front wheels with a bunch of offset.

Thanks to a bunch of guys here, I was able to identify, and rectify, the same issue with my front end.
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Frankie7799
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« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2015, 06:48:22 PM »

Rex, who was the noted chassis builder that brought the RMR to Bonneville and are you saying an A arm front end is or isnt stronger than a beam axle?
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jimmy six
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« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2015, 07:32:35 PM »

Tug.. Thanks for your replies. When you see a triangled front "suspension" on a lakester light bulbs go off. It is obvious yours are part of the frame and very well built. I did notice the spindles and glad they were not light weight. I am glad that you have discussed this with the appropriate officials.

I too agree with getting a log book if you don't have one as yet. I keep all receipts and photos which are needed. Fire bottle recerts are one. Good Luck
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2015, 07:48:32 PM »

Frankie,
The builder was Ron Attebury, C/GRMR no. 7500. I am saying that the set up that the design that "Tugboat" has is much stronger than a straight axle.

Rex
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NathanStewart
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« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2015, 07:51:54 PM »

That's not an unsprung a-arm front suspension.  Completely legal.
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« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2015, 08:44:53 PM »

thanks for the clarification Rex it's been one of those days for me grin
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« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2015, 09:58:11 PM »

I'm confused (what's new?).

BNI and SCTA are in the same family (they even have the same mother and father).  In essence, BNI organizes the Bonneville meets for the SCTA and turns them over to the SCTA at the drivers meeting.

Did you mean some other organization?
Yep! & there's only one rule book.
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