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Author Topic: Throttle bodies.  (Read 13449 times)
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RansomT
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« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2015, 11:06:56 AM »


My cold pipes are 92mm ID and the manifold is a custom unit we're
busy on that runs 16 x 2200cc Bosch injectors. Don't ask. rolleyes shocked


Maybe I read this wrong?   16 2200cc injectors will support north of 5000 HP .... That's a lot of boost!
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tauruck
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« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2015, 12:16:06 AM »

Guys the turbo thing is not my game.
The guru said 16 injectors?Huh
I'll check with him today and revert.

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NathanStewart
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« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2015, 03:50:58 PM »

Maybe I read this wrong?   16 2200cc injectors will support north of 5000 HP .... That's a lot of boost!

5000 hp on gas at .6 bsfc maybe.  It'd support half that power level on alcohol running at .55 lambda which is common for boosted motors.
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El Mirage 200 MPH Club Member
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« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2015, 08:19:01 PM »

I went out with this Russian chic named Lambda for a while, she was a blower!  wink
  Sid.
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tauruck
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« Reply #19 on: February 26, 2015, 04:44:48 PM »


My cold pipes are 92mm ID and the manifold is a custom unit we're
busy on that runs 16 x 2200cc Bosch injectors. Don't ask. rolleyes shocked


Maybe I read this wrong?   16 2200cc injectors will support north of 5000 HP .... That's a lot of boost!

It will be 8 injectors. Funny how no one remembers who told me 16. Glad we cleared it up.
Thanks Ransom T, I could have still been in the dark. cheers cheers cheers
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tauruck
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2015, 11:08:44 PM »

I'm busy on stuff. evil

I'm no engine designer but I do a good job assembling them.
My mate Derrick is 72 years old and I follow his advice. He's my go to
guy but turbo isn't his thing.

I have two options on my new plenum design. I can go with or without
trumpets. I'm thinking they might not be necessary with the turbo application
but I have the molds and the means to do them.

I've attached two pics, one is more complicated and I need the experts to advise
on what route I should take?.

Thanks in advance.


* Plen1.jpg (123.79 KB, 1024x683 - viewed 176 times.)

* Plen2.jpg (247.17 KB, 800x690 - viewed 148 times.)
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2015, 12:02:22 AM »

There is an older book "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell ISBN-0-8376-0160-1 that has a lot of info about throttle bodies and setting up a turbo system.
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tauruck
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2015, 01:25:41 AM »

Bo, I live in Africa. I can't even find the Yellow Pages here. grin
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fordboy628
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2015, 06:51:43 AM »

I'm busy on stuff. evil

I'm no engine designer but I do a good job assembling them.
My mate Derrick is 72 years old and I follow his advice. He's my go to
guy but turbo isn't his thing.

I have two options on my new plenum design. I can go with or without
trumpets. I'm thinking they might not be necessary with the turbo application
but I have the molds and the means to do them.

I've attached two pics, one is more complicated and I need the experts to advise
on what route I should take?.

Thanks in advance.

Mike,

Adding the trumpets might increase airflow a "bit", BUT, they will definitely change the intake runner length.     If the "plain" plenum has "generous" radii at the entry to the runners, the flow difference might be "minimal".

What I think you should do is:

Measure the total intake runner length for both scenarios, accurately.    You want to measure it at the port centerline.     Calculate which length is a "better" match for the rpm range you intend to use for your engine.    And yes, engine geometry is a factor here as well.

VERY generally:    Longer length, better at lower rpm.       Shorter length, better for higher rpm.    Unless the lengths are DRASTICALLY different, there is probably only a modest difference here.

From a practical standpoint, the plain plenum is easier & simpler.    I would use it if it was close on tuned length.   And I suspect Dynoroom would agree with me, but it wouldn't hurt if he would chime in with his thoughts.
 cheers
Fordboy

« Last Edit: March 19, 2015, 07:43:27 AM by fordboy628 » Logged

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SPARKY
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2015, 10:03:33 AM »

From what I have read, I would be more concerned about how you are going to introduce the air from the intercooler to your creation.  Tons of folks have found that a good single plane manifold, converted to EFI  ---enables them to turn the velocity into pressure without creating  UNKNOWN  currents and eddies inside the manifold, that can cause cylinders to be to rich or lean.  YMMV -- this is my opinion reinforced from many conversations with GM engineers when I was a Product Trainer for them.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
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"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
Dynoroom
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2015, 10:51:56 AM »

Opinions will vary widely on intake manifold type & construction for a blown application. But after all the smoke settles I've seen some real POS intake systems run very well. In the end, it will all come down to packaging, followed by price & what's available to construct what you need.
I like to use the correct runner length if I can (calculations for this are easy to find on line) & prefer a plenum type intake as opposed to a converted single plane manifold. That being said single plane intakes work very well & are very cost effective.
Here are some pictures showing stock type TPI intake where the runner lengths required are fairly long (12+") & was constructed this way to achieve the needed hood clearance along with a single plane & fabricated manifolds. Ultimately it's up to you to decide on the type that will fit your budget, power requirements, & CAR!
Good Luck.


* PDRM1966 (Large).JPG (78.14 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 131 times.)

* PB200284.jpg (68.14 KB, 800x600 - viewed 141 times.)

* marcella3.jpg (39.21 KB, 639x478 - viewed 146 times.)

* zsheet-metal-in-2.jpg (156.5 KB, 400x400 - viewed 142 times.)
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Michael LeFevers
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Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...
Dynoroom
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2015, 11:15:11 AM »

Here are a couple more pictures, the last 2 are manifolds I designed & built.
Lots more of manifolds in use at the salt too if interested....


* 70855.jpg (87.95 KB, 800x500 - viewed 129 times.)

* intake-radical-cross-ram-design (Large).jpg (100.72 KB, 1024x683 - viewed 151 times.)

* paolo 1 (Large).jpg (62.24 KB, 576x768 - viewed 184 times.)

* More Roadster Engine July 2013 118 (Large).jpg (156.75 KB, 1024x683 - viewed 193 times.)
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Michael LeFevers
Kugel and LeFevers Pontiac Firebird

Without Data You're Just Another Guy With An Opinion!

Racing is just a series of "Problem Solving" events that allow you to spend money & make noise...
tauruck
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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2015, 11:14:46 PM »

Thanks guys, Mike, my design is a combination of the two last photos you posted.

Like you all said, it's about the packaging. The subject will drive one nuts.

I posted pics somewhere on my build diary of the lower half of the plenum.

Got to fabricate a "lid" and then check how it all fits. rolleyes
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SPARKY
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« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2015, 11:55:09 PM »

 cheers cheers
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
tauruck
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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2015, 07:15:18 AM »

The original base is OK width wise but too short.
I made it thinking I was going to use the long shaft
distributor.

The front two runners would have to be angled back
so it will be easier to get the MSD crank trigger set up
with the short shaft distributor.

New plenum base and lid coming up.
With the bits set up as they are I'll be able to route
the air intake tubes over the top of the plenum box.

I've got a gazillion options from the air boxes I designed
for the local Trans Am cars.

Oval tubes, round tubes and a combination of both. (molds that is).


* Plen3.JPG (92.4 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 137 times.)

* Plen4.JPG (93.11 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 133 times.)
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