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Author Topic: BONNEVILLE 2015  (Read 50047 times)
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #150 on: July 14, 2015, 02:51:17 PM »

One part of the salt that I haven't seen any comments about in this recent frenzy - is the salt from Land's End to the (any) racing course.  That stretch was one of the worst parts of last year's problems - but nobody has remembered to comment or ask about it.

The salt for that first mile or so was submerged - so the traffic really tore it up.  Yes, a few truckloads of salt were placed right at the end of the pavement, but that helped just the first hundred or two feet.  from there on out it was rough and potholed and bad - no other way to describe it.  If that part of the surface hasn't come back to being stable and drivable - the condition of the courses per se is kind of a moot point.  that is -- if we can't get out there without damaging the salt and our vehicles, without getting stuck, without having such a bad surface that the emergency rigs cannot safely travel - then what do we do?  What about really heavy vehicles -- like especially Rick Gold's fuel tanker.  I'd expect the rig GVW is close to the 80,000# limit - so what'll that do to a fragile course access road?

In summary -- has anyone got information on the condition of the access road?
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #151 on: July 14, 2015, 08:21:02 PM »

Hello I was out to the end of the road on saturday the 11th and where you come off the pavement on either sides were steep drop offs of a foot or two, further out there was standing water I couldn't really see any pot holes , from that point. Traffic would have to be very careful and come straight off the road on to the salt either way a little and there is a drop off. Didn't look good to me.
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« Reply #152 on: July 14, 2015, 09:43:00 PM »

Yes, the "Beginning of the Salt" or "Lands End" as we call it is not looking pretty at this point.
But considering what that area has gone through over the past 11 month, we should not really complain.
Most of you guys did not get a chance to see what it looked like, just a few days before the big rain storms came in last year.
The Save the Salt team and Ron Main provided us with an Unbelievable entry ramp to our SpeedWeek event.
It would have held up beautiful and everything would have been great, if it was not for the big storms.
Attached here are a couple of pics what the STS team created and how well it still held up. These pics were taken after
the SCTA/BNI finished to evacuate the flooded Salt Flats. Still was in great shape, considering.
But like I mentioned earlier, over the past 11 month several Hundreds of vehicles have gone across the remnants of last years ramp.
All the traffic during the BMST, USFRA, several other small events and many more storms have taken a toll on it.

BUT, the STS team, Ron Main and the SCTA are working on providing an even better ramp for this year.
That's why it is SOOOO Important for you guys to support the Save the Salt efforts.

Lets pray for some hot days and please give the SCTA/BNI a chance to come up with some good and save courses to run on.
The entry road will get taken care off, as soon as we know, where we need it to go to.


* Save the Salt Ramp 2014 pic2.jpg (26.91 KB, 854x482 - viewed 295 times.)

* Save the Salt Ramp 2014 pic1.jpg (23.11 KB, 854x481 - viewed 274 times.)
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #153 on: July 14, 2015, 10:10:02 PM »

I can attest to the condition at Land's End at WOS - MISERABLE.  There was no easy path, the water was deep enough in places that one wrong turn could have buried the Magnum and my trailer.  Enough saline got splashed up under the Dodge that on more than one occasion on the way home, the starter wouldn't engage, and the front end hasn't been the same since.

I ran water under it for two days upon my arrival home, but realistically, given its age and mileage, the car is totaled.  I intend to continue driving it until the wheels fall off, pull the Hemi for a future project, and then junk it.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
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« Reply #154 on: July 15, 2015, 11:36:10 AM »

We're coming from the UK, it's not cheap, the container was $15000 & we have 10 bikes. We were here last year & only found out about the cancellation after we arrived. Work out our expenses, we're just ordinary blokes.
This year all the bikes are sitting in a warehouse in LA. All our flights are paid. We just want to run on the SALT. A short course would be better than nothing.
Chris Ireland.
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Seldom Seen Slim
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« Reply #155 on: July 15, 2015, 01:21:15 PM »

I'll add a little bit that'll mean very little, I'm afraid, but maybe - just maybe -- it'll be news you like.

That is -- I've heard about at least one of the folks that's near the top of the SCTA/BNI pyramid that a major concern he/she/they has right now -- is doing everything possible to have a good event for the sake of the international racers that have already expended large bunches of money to get the race vehicles and other equipment here and get themselves to USA, too.

Not that anyone can change the course conditions and the weather, but rather -- the sanctioning organisation knows the dilemma you're facing and is doing what can be done to make your time, efforts, and expenditures of some real value - so you can race down the salt.

For Nancy and me it's "only" a 3,800 mile round trip - but it's a trip we won't make if there's no SpeedWeek or maybe any of the other events.  For you in foreign countries -- you've already made (part of) the trip.  I sure hope you get to race.
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Jon E. Wennerberg
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« Reply #156 on: July 15, 2015, 01:50:58 PM »

I'm just thinking out loud here, trying to learn a bit more.  I'm trying

"IF" the Salt Flats were intentionally left "wet" for a year or more, would the silt and salt separate over time?

That is - I'm just thinking out loud, not making any suggestions - If water was to stay on the flats for an entire season, would the holes fill in, and everything more or less "level out"?

I am 100% sure that it's not even practical for mankind to do so, but how much time would Mother Nature require to allow the existing surface to even itself out?

Steve.
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« Reply #157 on: July 15, 2015, 02:38:19 PM »

I think for the flats to stay wet over the summer months, the miners would have to pump brine year round.  That will most likely never happen.
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Justin Calkins - Iowa Falls, Iowa  USA
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« Reply #158 on: July 15, 2015, 03:31:35 PM »

Quote
"IF" the Salt Flats were intentionally left "wet" for a year or more, would the silt and salt separate over time?

That is - I'm just thinking out loud, not making any suggestions - If water was to stay on the flats for an entire season, would the holes fill in, and everything more or less "level out"?

Yes no and maybe -- it is complex, the silt appears to slowly migrate to the bottom of the salt crust. A couple years ago I chopped out a biscuit of salt to look at it, and you could clearly see a thin mud line in the salt from the previous year which had very dirty salt on the south end during the shoot out.

Extensive flooding on the short term might actually be counter productive. One of the bonneville studies I found today shows that between 1992 and 1993 there was a significant change in salt coverage due to the extensive flooding in 1992. That resulted in the salt spreading out (ie thinner but greater surface area).

Based on chemistry principles we may be doing the pumping at the wrong time of the year for salt laydown. Salt solubility is temperature dependent (ie cold water will hold less dissolved salt than warm water). They pump the brine over as a maximum content brine as I understand it. But it is at a time of year when the brine layer would be warming up, not cooling down, so the only mechanism to force the salt out of solution would be evaporation. We might get better salt lay down if the brine was pumped at the very end of the summer season ( ie right after World Finals) and then when the cold weather sets in the brine layer would precipitate out salt due to the temperature drop, plus you would have a longer time period for evaporation. Whether that is physically or economically possible is a different nut to crack, as there might be other constraints on when they can do the pumping.

As far as the holes, physically filling them with trucked in salt (yes I know this is an expense) but probably would fix them faster than waiting for natural filling.
It is always that first hundred yards or so that takes the worst beating. Short of a temporary plank road to ease the flushing action of tires splashing brine in the holes, I don't know what you can do.
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« Reply #159 on: July 15, 2015, 04:33:20 PM »

Thank you, HotRod.  That is the kind of information that I'm hoping to learn more about.

Steve.
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« Reply #160 on: July 15, 2015, 08:57:24 PM »

I grew up in rural Nevada. Roughly four hours drive south from Wendover in a tiny busted mining town called Pioche.
I've lived in Salt Lake City most of my adult life. A few times a year I drive out to Bonneville to take a look.  What strikes me the most is that "Lands End" is in an arbitrary location with no discernible reason for why the pavement ends "there". (Disclaimer: I was born in 1970, and participated at a Bonneville competition event for the first time in 2011)

Considering the gigantic collective value the Bonneville Salt Flats represents to the entire world, Why In the Hell (?!?!?!) does Bonneville have less apparent infrastructure and maintenance than most municipal golf courses or ski resorts in the United States? I suggest its a matter of 'ownership'.

There are Country Clubs, Yacht Clubs, Golf Courses, or Municipal Airports all over the U.S. that get, frankly, an assload of federal and state dollars to maintain their (obviously!) limited "public interest".

One Question (that I would ask to all the "Stewards" of Bonneville Salt Flats, including but not limited to; The State of Utah, the BLM, Tooele County, all the sanctioning bodies before -and including the SCTA-BNI, the un-policed (wink-wink) mining companies, and pretty much every entity that has made a dime off the Salt Flats:
Why the Hell isn't there a properly surveyed-and-engineered, gated (and controlled by the BLM) CONCRETE road from 'lands end' to the actual area where the "Bonneville Speedway" is actually located?

There have been signs right on I-80 for decades, that declare this "Speedway" thing to oblivious highway travelers. It's really a letdown that something so important is just 'out there' with an utterly random, ad-hoc entrance that provides a literal vehicle for hundreds of tons of salt to stowaway and leave on vehicles every year.

Until someone with some political juice takes ownership of Bonneville and sees to it that the largest money machine the world has ever known (Hint: The US Government) finances deliberate, engineered improvements to the place that is laughably designated a "Park", the same rogue's gallery of people (private or public, innocent or corrupt) will continue to rape Bonneville to oblivion.

Abe Potter

P.S.
Hell, every silly, contrived lake and reservoir in Utah has a pretty Dodge nice, engineered boat launching ramp. Some even have dams that cost exponentially more than the paltry, pitiful maintenance Bonneville has received over the last 100 years.

Makes me sick...

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Abe Potter
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« Reply #161 on: July 15, 2015, 10:50:44 PM »

Abe, the entry road to what we know as lands end was in fact well out into the salt racing area at one time & the start line used to be closer to the bend but the receding salt has now left it well short. Back in the 90's we actually started the liners right down by I-80.
  Sid.
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« Reply #162 on: July 15, 2015, 11:32:38 PM »

I expected that at one time Lands End was in a relevant location. Thank you Sid. I can only imagine the collective sadness of so many folks like yourself who have witnessed the slow decay of Bonneville.  angry
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Abe Potter
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