Author Topic: Breaking the Land Speed Record. Unlimited Budget, How Long, How Fast, How Much?  (Read 11183 times)

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Offline SPARKY

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My wallet is pretty far down in my pants but it is not very fat   :police:
Miss LIBERTY,  changing T.K.I.  to noise, dust, rust, BLUE HATS & hopefully not scrap!!

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller

We are going to explore the racing N words NITROUS & NITRO!

Offline MAYOMAN

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The whole episode seems rather sketchy. What record? FIA only certifies flying start records for the mile and kilometer. Standing start records are totally different. FIM has some other, ambiguous records, but the NAE looks to have 6 wheels. And, of course, there was no backup run. Guiness records are even more sketchy. It is tragic that Jessi perished trying for some record that doesn't really exist.
The road is long - Life is short - Drive fast

Offline tallguy

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It could be argued that every death is a tragedy.  But it's also an end of a life, and applies to everyone who has ever lived.
Some deaths' timing should have been later than they were (just a value judgement, in my opinion).  I still don't know many
details about the crash, which of course should have been preventable.  On the other hand, if one insists on playing with fire,
it's likely that one will eventually get burned.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2023, 04:35:06 AM by tallguy »

Offline tallguy

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A longer course is always a good thing. But the reports from ABC News and others claim a vehicle failure caused the crash.
Jessica Combs died on August 27, 2019, after crashing a jet-powered car while setting a land speed record as part of the North American Eagle Project on a dry lake bed in the Alvord Desert, Oregon. The crash was caused by a failure of a front wheel, likely caused by hitting an object in the desert, which caused the front wheel assembly to collapse at a speed nearing 523 mph (842 km/h). The official cause of death was determined to be blunt-force trauma to the head occurring prior to the fire that engulfed the race vehicle after the crash.
Again, not using pneumatic tires, the NAE used solid metal wheels which dig a trench in the surface for steering control. Apparently, an unseen solid object triggered the wheel collapse. As I said, the Goodyear pneumatic tires on our wheels were tested at 850mph in 1970. 53 years later, I am certain pneumatic tires could do the job safely.

What "land speed record" was this?  Something kinda arbitrary, such as "by a blonde, weighing less than 150 pounds"?
The generally-recognized organizations that organize and "put on" these land speed racing competitions don't worry about
sex/gender.  So there's no "official" record that specifies the driver's sex, gender, gender identification, or fantasy (past,
present, or future) about what gender they self-identify as/with.

Jessi wasn't trying to set any generally-recognizable land speed record on the day she crashed.  Based on some past
runs she made (including driving way off the laid-out -- and fodded -- course), she may have been on a path that took
her onto some rocks that she shouldn't have been on.  Yes, of course, I know that hindsight is 20-20.  And I am very
sad that she died.  But when people are driving upwards of 400 mph, all safety systems and procedures should be very
rigidly adhered to.  I am not going into a lot of detail right now.  Perhaps the "failure of the front wheel" would not have
occurred if the team (broadly speaking) had been more careful in preparing for this run.

Online kiwi belly tank

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There were more wrongs in the NAE program than rights but the video of the crash shines more light on the situation than "the front wheel failed". It showed a left turn,... in the boonies,... at high speed,... & appeared to still have all 5 wheels intact so she had obviously run out of clean real estate causing the crash. A miscalculation or over zealous driver, we'll never know the truth. Then the Guinness Book of Stupid Records grabs a hand full of it for profit!!
  Sid.

Offline tallguy

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There were more wrongs in the NAE program than rights but the video of the crash shines more light on the situation than "the front wheel failed". It showed a left turn,... in the boonies,... at high speed,... & appeared to still have all 5 wheels intact so she had obviously run out of clean real estate causing the crash. A miscalculation or over zealous driver, we'll never know the truth. Then the Guinness Book of Stupid Records grabs a hand full of it for profit!!
  Sid.

Sid, where is this "video of the crash"?  I'd like to watch the video (for the sake of information).  I saw a video apparently
taken from a vehicle that followed Jessi's path (well after the day she crashed).  But I don't remember seeing any tracks
that indicated a high speed left turn.

I'm still "in the dark" about parachute deployment, also.   

Online salt27

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As far as land speed records not being gender specific, does that include Lee Breedlove and Kitty O'Neal?

All of this Jessi Combs negativity is becoming a bit repulsive.

Offline MAYOMAN

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Kitty O'Neill is the category C 1/2km SS record holder, set in07/07/1977.
She broke the category C 1/2km SS record formerly held by Vern Anderson, set in 19/08/1974.
That is NOT a women's record. It is THE record. Oh, and she happens to be a woman.
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Online salt27

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Dick, Thank you for that information.

When researching Kitty O'Neil all I found from multiple sources was that she was contracted to break the woman's world speed record.

What class did Lee Breedlove run in and who's record did she break? 

Thanks, Don

Offline MAYOMAN

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Again, FIA does not have a women's record category.
My recollection was that Craig was trying to keep the Bonneville International course tied up in order to keep Art Arfons from breaking his record again. Waiting for the season-ending weather he had Lee run the car for possible Guinness records, which are not recognized as world records by FIA. There may have been USAC or AAA national records, also.
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Offline PorkPie

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Woman Record, did Kitty set records, Jessie Combs....the whole story is a little bit complex....


Dick wrote about Lee Breedlove...


actually, the whole woman record pain starts in 1964, Lee Breedlove run in 1965...

during the 1964 season Firestone and Goodyear had booked the salt for mostly a week to set records...

here, in 1964, Art Arfons, Walt Arfons (Tom Green) and Craig Breedlove...

the contract was that way....when they had set the record and they didn't use the salt for more runs, the salt was open for the next competitor, albeit the time of the contract wasn't over...

so the teams from Walt and Art had there quartermiler jet cars also at the salt and sat some well known female racer into the jet cars and they drove a woman record, which was a idea of the advertisment departments of Goodyear and Firestone....great advertisment....also women can run fast with our rubber.... :cheers:

with this trick they took care that the competitors couldn't use the salt...

in 1965 it was than Craig Breedlove who used that trick....the only different....this time, his wife Lee, used the same jet car as he has used for his record...the Spirit of America Sonic 1...
this car finally was the first over 600 mph, Lee drove something over 300 mph....

and again the same B S...advertisment...also women....can....blabla....

from there on it was a while before the next fast woman showed up....

big different, she was really fast.....Kitty O'Neil....

there was a young guy named Billy Meyer....his father was the owner of SMI Motovation...
he had the idea to use a rocket car to became the fastest......name Aquaslide n Dive Special....another company of his dad....Bill Frederick got the order to build that car...when the car was nearly finish, Billy Boy had lost the interest...or better, he found out, that's a number to big...
so...there was a car and no driver....
and there was a stuntman with some money....Hal Needham.....he jumped in...and to get more sponsor money....they looked for a woman....
Kitty O'Neil was a well known and very popular stunt woman...and fast....and she brought some money, too

the car was called meanwhile SMI Motivator....

at first they tried the car at Bonneville which didn't work well out...

the team moved to Alvord Lake in Oregon....

but the SMI couldn't compete against the Blue Flame, who hold the record since 1970...now we had 1976....
as this car had only three wheels...it runs under FIM, like 1963, Craig Breedlove first Spirit of America as a tricyle with thrust power....SoA with jet....SMI with rocket....
so it was actually an open record.....
Why the official paper from Earl Flanders said....woman record flying kilometer....to today there is no information, why FIM used woman record....

well, the contract between Frederick/Needham and Kitty O'Neil, to Needham's opinion, just allowed her to run for a woman record.....

at first, Kitty set this 512 mph record, which could be certified as a new record, as it was an open record.....the next day, she was even faster and very close to the Blue Flame record...
when she was ready for the return run...a lawer of Needham showed up and done her out of the car....no new record...

the paper of the 512 mph record was signed by Earl Flanders, that everything was correct under the rules of the FIM....it was never certified as Frederick/Needham never paid the FIM.....and so it never found his way into the FIM record book

in 1977 Needham tried to run the SMI at Tonopah Dry Lake.....he never came close to the speed which Kitty reached and finally he crashed the SMI....

Meanwhile, Kitty had set official records for the FIA record book....not over the flying mile, but standing speed records....with the big support of Ky Michaelson.....some of her records are still
stand....

and she run the original Hustler, now called Captain Crazy, of Lee Taylor...Taylor had the water speed record from 1967 to 1977 with the Hustler....to today, Kitty is the 4th fastest person on water.

well, and now here is Jessi Combs....

Ed Shadle's idea was always to get more publicity and sponsors for the NAE project let a woman running the NAE, too....

there were several women before Jessi sat in the NAE...but not one of the other women every drove...some of them where unfortunately killed by a other motorsport/flight activity....or stepped back from the idea....

the NAE was a jet car, using a F104 Starfighter as base, with five wheels....Ed tried to run him with three wheels, but this didn't worked out....if he had the idea to break Craig Breedlove SoA three wheeler record....don't know how that could be possible as this record was frozen since 1979....

anyway....the NAE and the SMI was two different organisation...SMI was FIM and NAE was FIA....

so, when Jessi starts she was actually only going for the fastest speed set by a woman....not to beat Kitty's Alvord record....which was only "certified" by the beer brewer book....

and Jessi had to go against the 512 mph two way speed....the speed which Kitty run a day later was official never shown.....

Jessi run in 2019 two way....with a 4 hour turnaround time.....I have no idea what the beer brewer got in thier rule book....but it wasn't FIA....and the NAE didn't match anymore to the
FIA safety requirements after January 2016.....
normally when Jessi run, the time trap was over the mile....Kitty, was over the kilo....the beer brewer came up with a kilo speed....wherever they got that timing....

the outcome of this woman record is well known....with a very sad end for Jessi...

what really happend or caused the incident, official we will never hear, as the the police found a reason, so that all involved parties could walk away without getting in trouble..... :dhorse:

Summary


Kitty O'Neil could be official in the FIM record book if there would have not been a male which hate to be beaten by a woman......as here the 512 mph was on an open record.....

and for Jessi....as there is no male/female record....in 2019 jet and rocket was faster than 600 mph.....tough to reach for the NAE......

so it was nothing more than a not existing woman.......B S.....or the idea from an advertisment guy.....



Dick, Thank you for that information.

When researching Kitty O'Neil all I found from multiple sources was that she was contracted to break the woman's world speed record.

What class did Lee Breedlove run in and who's record did she break? 

Thanks, Don
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 06:00:29 AM by PorkPie »
Pork Pie

Photoartist & Historian & 200 MPH Club Member (I/GL 202.8 mph in the orig. Bockscar #1000)

Online salt27

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Thomas, Thank you, that was very imformative and as far as I'm concerned puts this to bed.   :deal

  Don

Offline tallguy

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For example, if 1,000 horsepower will get you 200mph, how fast will 1,000 horsepower get you on the water. Just use averages and avoid the extremes.

I think 160 Hp should get you over 200 MPH on the salt'

John

. . . On a very narrow bike.