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Author Topic: S-10 Build  (Read 8448 times)
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buickracer69
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« on: November 12, 2014, 12:55:21 AM »

Hello,

My name is Gary Lewis and I am currently working on a project to run at Bonneville hopefully in 2015. I have never done any LSR, but have experience in other form of race cars. Before I get into too many details about my build I will tell you a little more about myself and my background.

I am born and raised in St. Louis Missouri. I am currently in my senior year at the University of Missouri-St Louis and am 22 years old. Although I have never done any LSR I have built and worked on quite a few drag race cars. I have worked at an automotive machine shop for the last 7 years and have had the privilege of working on everything from Jr. Dragsters to nitro funny cars.

Luckily for me I have some good resources that I have access to and know a lot of people in the industry who can help me on the task I am not an expert it (which is a lot). My other “race car” is a 1969 Buick Skylark that I have swapped a 5.3 LS engine into and bracket race the poor thing to death. For the people who are familiar with bracket racing I run foot brake and pro and this season actually had some luck on my side and did fairly well (I consider going any rounds as doing alright!) .

I have built worked on a few engines for LSR applications including Steve M on this forum who set the record in his green rampage. He has already been very helpful and I would like to thank him now because I am sure I have been bugging the crap out of him with what must seem like elementary questions.

On to details about my build, I about an S-10 off a board member that has already raced in the MMP class at Bonneville. It needs a lot of TLC and some updates before it is ready for the salt again, but with some hard work and late nights I hope to have it in working order by then.
I am currently putting together and 6.0 LS engine for it. For those of you who are familiar with the LS engines it won’t be anything crazy, but my plan is to make is 4.005 bore x 3.622 stroke which will be a C engine. I am basically putting good rods and pistons in it, main studs and head studs, a turbo cam, a ported set of 317 heads, and letting it rip. The engine should be able to handle around 1000 RWHP but I don’t know if I will get the brave. As of now I am targeting 800 RWHP

I do plan on running a turbo, I am working out all the details on that right now, but that plan is to run a Borg Warner s480 which would be able to make around 30 PSI if needed. I am shooting for a target of 20 PSI but I would rather have more turbo than not enough since lag should not really be an issue.

I have a T56 transmission that I plan on running, and the truck already has a 9 inch in it. I think I will keep the 9 inch because I plan on running it at the Ohio Mile before I go to Bonneville (assuming all goes well). I have a set of 2.73 gears that have the NASCAR finish on them that I was thinking about running, but I am very open to gear suggestions. I know that I am ignorant in LSR and will need lots of advice along the way.

As far as stuff like the fuel system I have a brand new fuel cell and an Aeromotive A1000 pump, nothing fancy but it will feed enough fuel.

I plan on running an air to water intercooler with the water tank in the bed.

I am currently getting the fuel injection system pinned down, I am currently planning on using a Holley HP system which is basically like the dominator system without the ability to control automatic transmissions which I don’t need.

Sorry for the really stupidly long first post, but I figured I would let you guys know some stuff about me, and let you know what my plans are so you can tell me all the areas where I am thinking wrong. I look very forward to meeting you, and if you read this far, thanks for your time and the advice I am sure you have to offer!
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Peter Jack
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« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2014, 02:49:52 AM »

Welcome to the land of lsr. Sounds to me that you have things much more in hand than you may realize. You should have an excellent resource in Steve and he's developed a fairly large group of contacts that you should be able to draw on. In addition you'll find lots of advise on this board that you can sort and use as you wish. The one big thing to remember about Bonneville racing as opposed to most other forms is that weight can be your friend. The salt is usually somewhat to very lacking in traction.

There are lots of engine and driveline guys on this board that are much more qualified than me in that area. On the other hand if you have welding or fabrication questions I'd be more than happy to offer my opinion or advise. I often use a PM if I think something may prove controversial or attract a lot of conflicting opinion but if you want to question any subject further on the open board, anything that draws out various opinions or ideas is good.

Good luck with your build. I look forward to seeing pictures. That's often where one of us will see something and offer our own, often not so humble opinion.  rolleyes rolleyes grin

Pete
« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 02:52:50 AM by Peter Jack » Logged
tauruck
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2014, 08:21:09 AM »

Welcome Gary, I'm sure some of Steve's winning ways will rub off on you. grin
Have a blast and enjoy the journey. cheers

Mike.
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2014, 09:31:30 AM »

Don't beat yourself up if it isn't 2015 - not only is this the fastest sport on earth, it's also the slowest.

Even if the car's ready, the salt may not be.  Steve can fill you in on that one.

Seeing as you've got a vehicle that has run LSR, and that you've got Steve's phone number in your rolodex, it's clear you're well ahead of the game.  2015 is doable.

Keep us posted, and we'll see you on the salt.   cheers

Chris   
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Sumner
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« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2014, 10:20:44 AM »

Congrats from an ex-St. Louis county person (grew up there) on getting into LSR.  With your background you have a huge start on getting into this vs. some (myself) that got started.  You will find that you do need to throw out a lot of the 'what makes a good drag race car' ideas but it sounds like you know that and being young are probably pretty adaptable to new ideas.

One thing to consider is that an 800 RWHP S10 is probably capable of speeds in the 260 to 270+ range.  That is fast in a short wheelbase small truck that has the center of pressure at the wrong end of the vehicle.  Is this an older S10 (smaller) or later extended cab?  I remember first going to the salt and seeing a 190-200 mph small short wheelbase S10 run and was very impressed that there was enough room in the cab for the driver to get his balls in there and you might have the capability of running considerably faster.

If you haven't you need to study the center of pressure/center of gravity issue.  I would be planning on how to get a lot of weight in the front of that vehicle.  If you could run a wing in the rear of spill plates that would help but you can't.

With the blown C motor you are going to have a lot to package in there (besides yourself) and will have to use the bed but put the lightest stuff back there.  You are going to have to have weight for traction but will need a lot forward to stay straight.

Good luck with the build and ask questions and post questions and the current blown record is really soft and even if it goes up you probably wouldn't need to run the speeds I said you might be capable of,

Sumner
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1leg
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« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2014, 10:35:26 AM »

Wecome looking forward to watching the build, Don't forget to post some picture.
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Jerry
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RansomT
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« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2014, 10:50:38 AM »

And being in St. Louis, you are within a 6 hour drive to the Ohio Mile (Wilmington, OH) for a little Test n Tune if need be.
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buickracer69
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« Reply #7 on: November 12, 2014, 09:03:22 PM »

I plan on trying to go to the Ohio Mile if at all possible. I think it would be a good chance to shake the truck down before I drive 24 hours to go race.

Although I would be very happy with your expected 270+ MPH I don't think that will be the case. According to the calculators I have been messing around with the truck is not nearly aero enough to go that fast. If I went 200 mph I would be thrilled.

Did I read what you said correct about making the truck nose heavy? I figured you would want a lot of weight over the rear end for traction if possible. Is keeping it nose heave an attempt to keep it stable at speed? I am already learning new things! I figured this place would be a wealth of knowledge that I could tap into. 
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jacksoni
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« Reply #8 on: November 12, 2014, 09:26:22 PM »

Sum said:  "If you haven't you need to study the center of pressure/center of gravity issue.  I would be planning on how to get a lot of weight in the front of that vehicle."  Gotta read the fine print.

The issue is aero stability vs traction. At ohio mile mechanical traction not so bad and weight in the back more or less OK as long as you are straight. At Bonneville, traction is poor, weight in the back helps that but a blown V8 with lots of oomph, especially on shifts will light the tires, making mechanical traction- ie tires stuck to the track- more or less ZERO => sideways you go = spin city. Then your aero stability comes into play and nose heavy is good. Is a tough balance. Over all weight helps as long as the CP is behind the CG you have better chance of going more or less straight with the power you are looking to make.
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Jack Iliff
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buickracer69
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« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2014, 10:36:19 PM »

It seems like I have a lot more research to do. I knew this would be an eye opening experience. It will be a test to see if I paid attention in physics.

I attempted to upload a picture of the S-10 before I put it into storage but it is saying the file it to large. What is the most common way to upload photos on this site? Photo bucket?
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Milwaukee Midget
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« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2014, 10:46:01 PM »

What is the most common way to upload photos on this site? Photo bucket?

Best way I know - just paste the link into your entry.
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"Problems are almost always a sign of progress."  Harold Bettes
Well, I guess we're making a LOT of progress . . .  rolleyes

We are NOT rebuilding . . . We are reloading.

GOD SAVE MG - The Queen can take care of herself!
buickracer69
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« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2014, 11:22:59 PM »



If this link works, then here is a picture of the S-10 before it got put into storage for awhile.
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Sumner
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« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2014, 11:50:21 PM »

.....Although I would be very happy with your expected 270+ MPH I don't think that will be the case. According to the calculators I have been messing around with the truck is not nearly aero enough to go that fast. If I went 200 mph I would be thrilled. ....

Yep, you are probably right.  I took a gut swing on it comparing what we have done speed/HP wise vs. the 800 rwhp you expect to have (remember the 800 has to be there in the last mile not the last 120 feet of a quarter mile  smiley.

I found some figures on the frontal area/cd of an S10 (don't know if they are accurate) but with a 24.4 frontal area and a cd of .44  (if those are stock numbers you might be able to help them out some)...

http://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tbi/652656-92-s10-vs-83-a.html

... the 800 rwhp is probably good for about 215 plugging the numbers into the "HP needed for a Lakester or Car to run a certain MPH"  spreadsheet on my site here...

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bville-spreadsheet-index.html

.... and if you can make the 1000 that might be good for 233.  Still like you said 200 would be a ride in that truck on the salt that you won't forget soon  smiley.

.....Did I read what you said correct about making the truck nose heavy? ........
............. Is keeping it nose heave an attempt to keep it stable at speed? ..

Yes and Jacksoni had the answers but this might help also...

http://1fatgmc.com/car/14-Hooley/14%20-%20hooley-construction-2014-2.html

You are on the right track asking questions and studying the whole deal,

Sumner
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« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2014, 12:12:57 PM »

I don't know if the "swoopy" paint job is just misleading my eyes (and I'm not that familiar with S-10s), but it appears to me that the wheel cut-outs on the body have been modified.  This might be a classification problem.
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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2014, 01:25:12 PM »

Glad to see you posting, Gary!

This should be a great project.

Steve.
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