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Author Topic: More New Cars for Bonneville  (Read 12296 times)
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Freud
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« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2006, 07:17:05 PM »

That car seems exceptionally long for a single engine car. One of the things that Dr Seal at Western Washington University said, when we had Marlo's model in the tunnel, was to try to shorten the car somewhat. The length of his car was determined by the size of the drive trains and the space necessary to plumb it plus a nose and tail.

Seth's car looks more like it was designed for super sonic speeds. All of us could wish for that but it's highly unlikely with a single engine. It will require a long trailer to transport it unless he choses to sling it under Tanis' bird.

Sum, Slim and Rex, try to link up with me at Salt talk time.

FREUD
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dwarner
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« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2006, 07:59:17 PM »

Dan, how many tire/wheels can you run???


A minimum  of four in contact with the ground at all times.

DW
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« Reply #17 on: August 05, 2006, 12:14:32 AM »

Fascinating topic-400 mph open wheeled, wheel driven!

Informal conversations with Top Fuel  wing wizard Mike Mageira thru the years indicate that at about 185 wheels of substantial width generate lift (there's a bunch of books that back this up).

Thusly, one would assume that approaching and beyond this speed range one would have to generate DOWNFORCE one way or the other (or you'll be an ice racer!).

Don't believe adding huge weight to the vehicle will suffice since the Bonneville course length is acceleration limited.

Not a lot of studies have been done on the aero influence between tandem, or near tandem wheels, but the wake of the body  ( off the nose and between the wheels) may influence what the front wheel wake  does to the rear wheels re drag reduction.
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Dynoroom
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« Reply #18 on: August 05, 2006, 02:02:44 AM »

This one will be at Speed Week '06
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Michael LeFevers
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« Reply #19 on: August 05, 2006, 02:22:26 AM »

Quote from: Rex Schimmer
From the pictures the motor looks like a big block, Seth must be going for the A and AA records. Great looking car and it is pretty obvious that it is going to be a real "work of art". Will this be the first 400 mph lakster?
Regardless of what LeFever's by line says, to 400 in a lakester you got to be AERO!! At 400 mph it could takes almost 200 hp to just push one wheel/tire through the air, that's 800 HP total!!!!

You know it will be fast!!

Rex


Just a little fuel for thought... the old lakester was setting records at 300 mph. The power required for that speed was less than 950 hp, this was done with both 258 & 302 CI engines turbocharged. The new car has the same frontal or a bit less than the old car. The engines will be average size big blocks, wonder how fast it might go...
There was a time back in the early '80's when they said a production car would never go 300.
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Michael LeFevers
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« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2006, 04:09:51 AM »

I'm still not getting my question answered though about whether.....

 Sum,

it's hard to get here a answer, due to this, that the answer based a combination of a lot of different factors.

But I will try, to get you a idea.

The disturbed airflow behind a NASCAR or Formula 1 is about 50 yards.

Behind this cars - in this 50 yards - is a very turbulance air - more - it's a vaccum air - this is the reason why a car behind a other car can go faster - the airpressure which the front car get, exist not behind the front running car - in other words, behind the front running car is "less" air  wink

To your question, if the wheels could stand in line or stepped.

At first, with a short wheelbase, the rear wheel is full in the disturbed air from the front wheel - but this air is different than a air behind a car, due to this that the wheel is turning forward, which create a totally different airflow. The air behind a turning wheel goes backwards  huh at first - this sound very strange, but you can see it in a windtunnel.

When you cover the wheels inside and outside with a disc, this airflow will be much cleaner.

If you run a longer wheelbase, the airflow is a little bit cleaner, before it "crashed" into the rear wheel, which helps if you run covered wheels.

Much more important is the distance between the wheels and the car body, how far you be away from the body. If the airflow around the car is not touching the wheels, the car can go faster.  In other words - if the disturbed airflow from the wheels is not crashing into the body airflow, the airflow around the body is smoother.

As you see, it's a combination of a lot of factors.

It will be need too long to explain here everything, but I hope I gave you a idea what all is involed into the airflow.

Let us talk at the Salt Talk about this issue. There it's much easier to explain.
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Pork Pie

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« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2006, 12:38:24 AM »

Sum, your analogy of the roundy round cars going faster as a pair when they draft doesn't work as a comparison to a tire following another tire. The reason is that the two cars running close together  have twice the horsepower while running as a combined aerodynamic unit. The tire in front of another tire has one power unit.  This barely makes sense to me and I just wrote it.
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« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2006, 09:15:08 PM »

Mike do you know what tubing dia. the upper rails are, "1.75"?
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« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2007, 12:06:01 PM »

Google ---Lakester--- on page 10 there is a link to something that "MAY" huh give us some ideas of aero on Seths new car!
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
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« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2007, 01:17:01 PM »

barely makes sense to me to either--wouldnt the aero be the same at bonneville with one tire following the other as with both tires in the same position rolling  down a very steep hill at the same speed-hmmmm just a thought  willie buchta
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« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2007, 02:17:23 PM »

We are in the group that like small narrow front tires, tread width about twice the car width and narrow as possible rear tread width. 


* 00000101.jpg (69.39 KB, 600x400 - viewed 532 times.)
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Stainless
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MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2007, 02:56:21 PM »

I may be joining the narrow rear tread with next season, as well as fairing my frt. axel and a small rear wing.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2007, 04:56:57 PM »

I may be joining the narrow rear tread with next season, as well as fairing my frt. axel and a small rear wing.

Sparky, just be sure that you don't have any body axle fairing wider than the inside of the rears.  Axle shape is up to you...
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2007, 08:05:26 PM »

What do you think it would have to be to not be considered fairing? rolleyes
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #29 on: December 01, 2007, 08:19:12 PM »

What do you think it would have to be to not be considered fairing? rolleyes

Like he said it sounds like the axle tube itself can be whatever shape you want it, you just can't attach something to it that is aero and inside the plane of the tires.

I have to call you we won't be coming next weekend,

Sum
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