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Author Topic: APS-PBG-650/750 build/change  (Read 10711 times)
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JimL
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« Reply #30 on: January 01, 2014, 07:14:19 PM »

Amazing how the simplest things are so complicated.  This photo shows the configuration of my blower drive off the crankshaft. 

Note about the pic:  This is an old, unusable block and crankshaft, but its handy for checking runout.  I have more junk parts than good, which is what happens when you scrap lots of clunker bikes to get a few useful pieces. tongue

I had to slice an extra oil pump drive sprocket and turn it for a 1.25" seal surface.  After that little job (which took all day with a Dremel clamped onto the tool holder of my lathe), I had to cut another oil pump drive sprocket to make a spacer.  That only took a few hours.  These parts are harder than the proverbial "hammers of Hades".

The end of my pulley mount is turned to accept 1" bore pulleys, with 3/8" thick engagement.  I think I will pin and bolt the sprockets onto the flange portion, rather then ask the crankshaft bolt to do double duty.

Now I have to find someone to make the 3-rib pulleys.  The R410 doesnt take much power to spin, so 3-rib belt is all thats required.  I have seen one application making over 200 HP from an R410 running just 3-rib belt with a spring-load tensioner.

JimL


* DSC00153xy.jpg (123.03 KB, 1280x960 - viewed 144 times.)
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JimL
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« Reply #31 on: February 09, 2014, 09:03:57 PM »

Not a very well staged pic, but try to ignore the background.  It looks like I will be adding about 13" to the wheelbase.  This will make enough room for the intercooler tank and pump, plus a switch to garden-tractor batteries to handle the fuel injection pump, etc. 

The rear suspension is going to be a challenge.  Quite a bit of fiberglass work coming my way, also.

JimL



* DSC00176xz.jpg (406.68 KB, 2592x1728 - viewed 200 times.)
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edinlr
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« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2014, 10:55:49 PM »

Just looking at today's picture, that sure is a big box from TRD for such a tiny supercharger, are you sure you aren't putting a 671 on there?
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JimL
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« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2014, 11:06:08 PM »

Should have moved that, it has nothing to do with my bike project.  Theres an M62 in that box, which is about 2 1/2 times the size I am using.

JimL
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salt27
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« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2014, 11:21:32 PM »

I know what it is going on.   rolleyes
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JimL
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« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2014, 11:56:04 PM »

...and stop arguing about it, Don, its bad for my blood pressure and I am an old man! angry

"Tired of moving that box around" JimL
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2014, 12:01:20 AM »

Jim, I wasn't going to say anything, but since Don commented, and you did say you didn't clean up the background for your picture.... well, here goes...

Jim, it looks like you're gonna need a longer table...  grin  cheers
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
JimL
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« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2014, 02:56:13 AM »


As we used to say in Colorado, "....boy, howdy!"  The fair and lovely Jeanne gave me a laser level for xmas; it will be helpful building that table out longer and flatter!  Its due for new plywood, anyway, because I draw a lot of lines on it.

Anyway, this bike will definitely stay with my trailer crane loading method, especially when you see whats gonna' happen to the belly pan.  I ran an aluminum spat, this year, ahead of the rear wheel.  What showed up from the salt blasting (front wheel) was a real eye-opener and unexpectedly assymetrical.

Uh-oh. shocked huh

More trouble brewing...
JimL
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2014, 12:16:16 AM »

Jim, some old guidance I got years ago and still use is the trail needs to be a certain percentage of the wheelbase.  Is this true?  Will you be increasing the trail to reflect the longer wheelbase?
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JimL
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« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2014, 05:19:37 AM »

I will still be between 5-10% trail-to-wheelbase.  This bike has been solid at over 160mph, and takes pretty good pressure to change line at speed.  Wind is difficult, and I will have to quit trying passes in big sidewinds.  Its never tried to wobble or fall down, but it has skidded the front wheel in gusty sidewinds.  You lose a lot of speed that way, with such limited horsepower.

JimL
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JimL
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« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2014, 01:27:33 AM »

There is nothing like a new build/rebuild to teach you things you almost didnt want to know.

In the process of working out this plan, I recently spent a day with my cam people.  We jointly realized that there is a problem with this engine design, wherein the rear cylinder cam lobes begin lifting at the outer end of the pivoted follower, but the front cylinder cam lobes begin lifting closer to the pivot point.

They set me up with a good kit to map each of my cam lobes so we can get new cam designs worked up (including new unblown grinds, as well as a blower grind).  Tonight I mapped every lobe of the most recent  cams I had made for 2013,  at .010" intervals.

What a deal.  The front cylinder begins effective lift (the .050" point) 30 degrees ahead of the rear cylinder, but with .015" less lift.  Additionally, the front cylinder lift graph, at the valve spring retainer, has two "bumps" in the lift lines, on both opening and closing ramps.

The rear cylinder has only one bump in the graph lines, during opening and closing.  Curiously, the original factory cam design has highly assymetric lobes, with reversed (slightly non-matching) lobe shapes for the different cylinders.

Bottom line:  My latest cams, intended to be 270 degrees effective, are only 231 degree duration on one cylinder, and 246 degrees on the other cylinder.  With .005"-.0015" actual increase in lift, over stock, these cams are probably still not as effective as the stock cams.

This should be a lesson to anyone working with a single cam engine that has rockers or pivoted followers pointed in opposite directions.  I wish I would have realized this 5 years and a few thousand dollars ago. embarassed

I would really love to see the cam graph for this engine (http://8w.forix.com/penske-mercedes-pc23-pre-94-plans.html) because it used almost identical follower arrangements.  If you scroll to the bottom of the page, there is a cutaway color drawing, where the short cam followers can be seen with the same geometry Honda  used on these pushrod twins about 15 years before that Ilmor engine.

JimL
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 01:34:37 AM by JimL » Logged
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2014, 09:46:07 AM »

There is nothing like a new build/rebuild to teach you things you almost didnt want to know.

I wish I would have realized this 5 years and a few thousand dollars ago. embarassed

JimL

Jim, those statements ring true for all of us... When you race the salt, you get limited chances to test your theories, some years less than others.
See you at Freud's reunion  cheers
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
JimL
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« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2014, 11:03:08 AM »

Oops...too tired last night.  It should say "13 degrees" different opening points, not "30 degrees".  The duration I reported is correct, but the lobe spread center is not correct for an 80 degree engine.

It is pretty close to correct for a 90 degree v-twin, however. shocked shocked

Oh nooo.... Another long phone conversation coming.  More mysteries to ponder.

Not a good way to start this day.
JimL

Update an hour later:  good info from WebCam... it is the rocker ratio due to short arm length and sweep radius, going in opposite direction.  This has me wondering about things like 20R/22R aftermarket cams; same deal of rocker followers pointed different directions.

So, now I have to detail degree every cam we've used, in each engine configuration, to redo all versions.  Maybe I should take up knitting, or gardening....
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 12:23:26 PM by JimL » Logged
edinlr
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« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2014, 12:30:31 PM »

I would really love to see the cam graph for this engine (http://8w.forix.com/penske-mercedes-pc23-pre-94-plans.html) because it used almost identical follower arrangements.

Based on you running that behind the scenes skunkworks for Toyota, I expect Ilmor to get you that info in the next few days.  grin

Ed
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Vinsky
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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2014, 01:14:51 PM »

There were rumors that some of the cams for Rollie Free's bike were ground backwards. Must have been easy to reverse the template. I don't remember if he ran them or not.
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John
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