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Author Topic: APS-PBG-650/750 build/change  (Read 10745 times)
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JimL
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« on: December 02, 2013, 11:49:15 PM »

This arrived on the front porch today...Eaton TVS R410. wink  First pic shows how small this is, next to a 20oz pop bottle.  It will be crank driven, with EFI.

Trouble brewing! evil

Regards, JimL


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Vinsky
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« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2013, 12:32:27 AM »

Nice Jim, bet that set you back a guitar or two.
John
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John
JimL
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« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2013, 01:42:21 AM »

Ummm...you cant purchase these, as they remain unavailable. huh  Otherwise I couldnt possibly afford one.  undecided

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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2013, 01:53:22 AM »

Jim, why a super and not a turbo?
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JimL
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« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2013, 02:30:31 AM »

Too hard to turbo this 80 degree odd fire...and I already learned how to blow up a turbo engine at SpeedWeek 1998!  Easy to control the upper limit with this blower.  I don't need to get crazy, here....this bike already ran 164 un-blown on gas.

Much to learn, quickly. 
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 03:49:59 AM by JimL » Logged
Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2013, 03:17:19 PM »

Jim,
You are a glutton for punishment!! But it is always fun to watch!! Looking forward  to seeing how you do this!

Rex
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Rex

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grumm441
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HK 327




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« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2013, 04:04:31 PM »

4 rotors
Nice
G
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Chief Motorcycle Steward Dry Lakes Racers Australia Inc
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I build it, Goggles tries his hardest to break it
JimL
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« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2013, 11:05:45 PM »

Thanks, Rex...this will be fun to build.  I had a long visit with Dave Phillips today (he was on the Ford Indy V8 project) and he really set me straight on some things.  Dave and Larry Slutter worked together at TRD, back when my wife was the front desk.  Both those gentlemen did their best to teach me a little, and I hope to apply some of that to this new project.

I needed to get that explained, so folks dont think I completely know what I am doing.  So, with that cleared up.... the plan is moderate boost, plenty of flow, batch fired efi, ice water intercooling, more compression than seems logical, and engine temps held low.

I have been running this bike keeping the heads and block as cool as possible (I can lay a bare hand on the cylnder head at the end of my turnout.)  This method has let me run very high compression ratio (without detonation) and enough lead to spin 11,000 or so to cover my 3-4 and 4-5 upshift.

I pull the pistons after each event and find no sign of ring gap line-up while running A19A.  Larry taught me to be absolutely sure I am not making the rings line up, even if the piston crown and plug porcelin look perfect.  You cant assume...you must tear down and look.  My tune up has been safe, all this time.

That said, I still have problems to solve, notably the constant head gasket leaks.  This engine is an early open deck design and the fire rings are stretching on the very first pass, every year.  I was lucky this year; the high wind on Saturday forced me to ease a few times on my first pass.  I was able to leave the line Sunday morning with one cylinder still good, and the other not too bad, which made the good return run.  I either have to rearrange components to allow head gasket change in impound, or find a way to O-ring these cylinders.

As usual, I got to ramblin' again.  I do enjoy the camaraderie of this group, and the great knowledge base to learn from.  I get real nervous, sometimes, when folks start sayin' nice stuff to me.... shortly after I just had a full physical.

Did my VA Doc tell ya'all something she dont want me to hear? shocked shocked

Regards, JimL
« Last Edit: December 04, 2013, 12:37:53 AM by JimL » Logged
wobblywalrus
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« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2013, 12:51:48 AM »

One trick I did years ago on a BSA copper gasket was to grind away parts of the gasket that were not essential to make a seal.  This was removal of material from the outside perimeter.  The tension from the head bolts was distributed over a smaller gasket area and as a result, the clamping pressure was increased.   It worked.
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JimL
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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2013, 01:36:12 AM »

Thanks, Bo, that reminds me that I need to see if there are copper gaskets for the CX Turbo.  I suspect I will be getting a deck plate, like the Honda Civic guys do, and O ringing the heads.  One fascinating possibility would be the method Honda used to stroke the CX500/750 flat tracker conversion.  It was a longer sleeve with a thick flange to raise the heads and allow more stroke.

I could build into 1000cc class...and perhaps the poorhouse...all in one fell swoop.

JimL
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Koncretekid
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« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2013, 07:06:58 AM »

Nice score, Jim,
Next time you're in Colorado, come down to visit me and bring that thing along.  I'll bet I can find a good home for it!
Tom
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We get too soon oldt, and too late schmart!
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SaltPeter
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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2013, 04:29:37 PM »


Jim

I don't know if this might help, but one of the Subaru engine builders over here Perfourmance Motorsport used to do for their "Stroker" engines.



"The standard is on the left, we weld in bridges and machine the block for support to stop the bore wall shifting under load"

Pete cheers
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The Mission is to go as fast as possible along on that old Road Less Traveled.
Old Scrambler
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Going Fast - Slowly




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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2013, 08:37:00 PM »

Don't know if this will help................On my current Triumph Cub motor, we sleeved the cylinder and created a 2-3-thou step at the deck to try and help the copper head gasket to seal. On the 3rd heat-cycle the 45mm gasket blew at the stud nearest to the exhaust.  I had a new gasket made at 25mm thickness but with smaller holes at the two studs that are not doweled. The wider amount of copper material worked with compression at 13 or better.   
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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 130.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 137.7 mph
Chasis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre
edinlr
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« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2013, 10:36:58 PM »

For someone who said he was going to "lay low" this winter, you sure sound like you will be busy.
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Honda CX650 turbo
JimL
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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2013, 12:46:03 AM »

Thanks for the tips, fellows.  It appears there is something going on, because I have had headgasket leaks on all 5 of the engines, in 3 different displacements, on 7 different heads, 6 different blocks, with 3 good machinists.  Always the same problem, but much more on the big blocks than the little blocks.

Worldwide, the 650s have a reputation for head gasket trouble...so I dont think its just me.  This is the kind of stuff that makes me grumpy; this never ending train of errors and missed chances.  I would sure like to make two runs in a row that are both good.  My son did it in '11, but I havent, yet.

Ed...you are right, but luckily I aint smart enough to quit. angry. I hope you are getting to work on yours, now!

JimL
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