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Author Topic: K Streamliner  (Read 16865 times)
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Sumner
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« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2013, 02:17:40 PM »

What is the weight distribution?
All of the engine, fuel, and water is in front of the front tires.
That is unloading the rear tires at the same time.
You can always add weight to gain steering authority, but that's extra weight to drag. Very different from adding weight to gain traction.

I feel his setup is actually a lot better for overall weight.  With a rear drive car you are adding weight for traction usually but also a lot of weight that does nothing for traction and isn't needed for steering.  Only there to keep the CG ahead of the CP.  I'd say with Hooleys car over 50% of the weight we have had to add is there just for the CG part.

Rob of course is trying to go light and use controllable aero downforce on the back of his NACA 66 Special streamliner which could also be a good deal vs. carrying all of the dead weight we do and might possibly work for us once we get more comfortable with using the rear wing or a new one.

I think one of the major things you have to handle with a front wheel drive car is the one Sparky mentioned,

Sum
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jdincau
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« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2013, 02:29:31 PM »

What is the weight distribution?

Is there a differential?

That very long exhaust tube after the expansion chamber? Why not exit at the stinger?
Dean,
     Weight distribution is 67% front 33% rear, center of pressure is behind the CG.
     There is no differential.
      We wanted to add energy to the boundary layer in the aft half of the car to aid in reducing  drag.

Sparky,
     Centrifugal clutches, no power no connection engine to drive wheels.

Sum,
      We have provisions for changing the steering ratio. We thought we might want to slow it down as we work up in speed.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 02:36:18 PM by jdincau » Logged

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« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2013, 03:08:39 PM »

If you don’t qualify for SCTA records, how about going for glory with the FIA?? cool

The current up to 250cc NA records look a little soft at 122 mph (kilo) and 120.116 mph (mile).  At least I assume they’re soft since they were set at a couple of British airfields.
[Actually, I've just noticed that the 250cc to 350cc records (flying kilo and mile) appear to both be ‘Open’, and the 350cc to 500cc class are only 99.5 mph (kilo) and 88.7 mph (mile).]

Even the blown records may not be out of reach:
          Up to 250cc – 144.2 mph (mile and kilo), set in 1959
          250cc to 350cc – 158.2 mph (kilo) and 158.3 mph (mile) set in 1966
          350cc to 500cc – 222.6 mph (kilo) and 223.1 mph (mile)

OK, so the last two are a bit more challenging, but once you’ve got the first ten you might be ready aim at 225+mph. grin

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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2013, 03:11:31 PM »

 Maybe 2,500.000 fork lifts can't be wrong but not many of them can go 200 mph either!! Maybe a new SCTA class!

Your approach to rear steer, in my opinion, is certainly correct, a very ridged (stiff) steering mechanism with zero free play to reduce/eliminate any ability for the rear steering wheel to oscillate along with zero caster to eliminate any induced steering loads all look like good thinking. I would also suggest, if you haven't already done it, a very stiff, probably hydraulic, steering dampner that is designed to provide a small amount of dampening at normal steering input speeds but lots of dampening above that level, and I would attach it directly to the steering mechanism at the steering wheel. If you can keep it stable it should work.

Just for my info what wing section shape did you use to form the body to?

Rex
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« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2013, 07:26:20 PM »

Rex,
      I am not sure of the number/name of the profile. It is not a wing section but a sailplane fuselage shape. I could ask my brother if it is important to you.
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« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2013, 07:38:03 PM »

If you could, I would really appreciate it as I am always looking for new aero shapes. I personally like the NACA 66000 series but the sail plane people have done some great things when it comes to low aero drag. Ask your brother if part of your aero package is "Natural Laminar Flow" considerations.

Rex
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« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2013, 12:00:36 AM »

Rex

Re: airfoils, did you follow up on Prof Selig and the U of Illinois work I mentioned a few years back?

Some interesting laminar flow shapes, some that would accomodate a Lakester package especially.

Back to the K Streamliner, the shape resembles Soap Box Derby design of the '50s somewhat.
Simple to fabricate, but slippery.

About rear wheel steering, many know Mickey Thompson dabbled with it (with normal front) for Indy.
Mickey took a friend of mine in the Toronado he had adapted for evaluating same.

Abrupt lane changes at speed on the Long Beach Freeway!
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« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2013, 09:35:19 AM »

I thought soap box racer as well when I first saw it! afro
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« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2013, 11:29:52 AM »

When I was in high school the auto shop teacher built a kart with a lawn mower engine.

It had rear steering. But to make it exciting, the steering was backwards, turn left to go right. Hilarious to watch.
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« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2013, 12:06:49 PM »

"...turn left to go right..."

That's like what you do when backing up a trailer.  I've learned to think of it, instead of left gives you right, that the trailer is going to go the way that the BOTTOM part of the steering wheel is going.  It makes backing way easier.
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« Reply #55 on: December 05, 2013, 01:04:36 AM »

Is that a 1-inch thick aluminum plate on the bottom, or something else?  This car sure has me interested in switching to 4 wheels. 
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« Reply #56 on: December 05, 2013, 10:36:59 AM »

That one was a fiberglass/foam/fiberglass sandwich. It has been replaced with aluminum/aluminum honeycomb. Bad material selection on the first one resulted in delamination.
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« Reply #57 on: December 05, 2013, 12:01:41 PM »

I look forward to seeing you chain them in there like "Galley Slaves"  grin
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« Reply #58 on: December 05, 2013, 03:35:33 PM »

Before you convince yourself the centrifical clutches will release from engine to drive train think about how that will work. If the engines are turning 10,000 rpm so is the output from the clutch. If you shut the engine off the output of the clutch driven by the wheels will not release the engine as they are both turning the same speed. The clutch won't release until both the engine AND the output slow to the engagement rpm. Ask the clutch manufacturer if they agree.

Jim
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« Reply #59 on: December 05, 2013, 04:31:13 PM »

Interested Bystander,
     Wasn't Mickeys four wheel steer? Never mind I re read you post and that's what you said.
jauguston
     These are go cart clutches with springs and shoes that are not self energizing, they disengage quickly enough to get a clean plug reading.
Sparky,
     An apt analogy indeed, It certainly is going to be dark, hot and smelly in there.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 07:18:29 PM by jdincau » Logged

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