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Author Topic: TFA Racing Lakester "tweak" diary  (Read 40258 times)
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entropy
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« Reply #180 on: January 05, 2015, 07:25:22 AM »

Cool car! Great video. It looks like you could use a vertical stabilizer. It should take care of that hunt and pucker. Congrats on getting it all together and looks like you guys are pretty close to getting the chassis optimized.

Rob,
Thanks!
For this year we are not going to really touch the aeros or motor, rather we are concentrating on making sure that the current basic set up is correct, change config & adjustments as needed,  thus the lil trip from Houston to Joe Timney's shop.
Karl
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 08:33:16 AM by entropy » Logged
entropy
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« Reply #181 on: January 05, 2015, 08:28:38 AM »

You need to work on the problem at the front & not park a tail on to try & help it.
You first need to know where the toe is & be able to accurately adjust it at the salt to find the best setting for your car.
Having a spool will exaggerate everything & equal tire circumference is very important.
My inital thought looking at the vid was probably too much toe making it wash & the steering possibly too fast creating an over-input situation by the driver.
If it has a R&P, put a steering quickener in the shaft backwards to slow it down. If its a box, do a Pitman arm with multipul holes.
Make up a toe adjustment bar so you can do your own, just like an overgrown vernier caliper so it will fit up against the front & rear of both front wheels & measuer it right on center line. This system will give you an accurate straight ahead position & not off to one side where everything will change.
  Sid.

Sid,
Thanks much for your thoughtful and info packed post.  From our previous discussions, you know my low level of knowledge of this stuff and I much appreciate you taking the time to push me up the learning curve

1. slow down steering:  
We currently have a rack & pinion - Sweet Mfg, manual,  ratio = 1 3/4.  I am under the impression that this is a slow ratio, but Joe Timney will assess the situation.  Stainless and others have also mentioned that slowing down the steering may help.

2. steering quickener (reversed):  i had never heard of them, thanks!

3. home made "calipers" to adjust toe for our car's specific handling:  awesome idea!  
I have something close in my garage which i used to adjust MC rear wheel alignment.  It may be possible to mod it to measure toe.
Thanks again,
Karl
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SPARKY
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« Reply #182 on: January 05, 2015, 08:28:49 AM »

Four wheel drive trucks have had frt. strg. stab. for years

 maybe and adjustable damper much like Rob but on his frt suspension---the racing surface is rutted and has humps and bumps---rear wheel drive cars and trucks "hunt" their way down the course---I am sure that would be magnified with frt. wheel drive.

 Front wheel drive cars are notoriously dangerous on cruise control in the rain because of the changing tractive effort of each tire---a lot High HP front wheel drive cars have Torsens
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« Reply #183 on: January 05, 2015, 08:34:37 AM »

lots of sprint cars have "quickeners" which double the response of strg. inputs -- Speedway for one sells them--just install one of them backwards

 at the speeds you most likely hope to run you may need some where around 30 to 1  by several's opinions on these forums
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 02:35:23 PM by SPARKY » Logged

Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

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« Reply #184 on: January 05, 2015, 09:19:04 AM »

lots of sprint cars have "quickeners" which double the response of strg. inputs -- Speedway for one sell them--just install one of them backwards
 at the speeds you most likely hope to run you may need some where around 30 to 1  by several's opinions on these forums
SPARKY,
thanks much for the info!
And also thanks for your build thread, I am slil-by-lil reading the whole thing to help my education.
Karl
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #185 on: January 05, 2015, 02:03:02 PM »

Karl,
I run a Howe Racing "quickener" backwards on my little street modified and have probably 5-6000 miles on it with no problems. Works well.

Rex
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« Reply #186 on: January 05, 2015, 02:42:44 PM »

Thanks Karl,
 Some appreciate it and others not so much---the reason it on here lumps,  bumps, warts and all ---- is to help others at least be aware of what they (may/will)  be dealing with. POSTING/READING is how I have become of some of my problems/solutions--- ymmv

there are lots that are willing to help those who are trying to learn   thanks to all of them and to Jon A. / and Jon W.
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #187 on: January 06, 2015, 07:25:58 AM »

Karl,
I run a Howe Racing "quickener" backwards on my little street modified and have probably 5-6000 miles on it with no problems. Works well.
Rex
Rex,
thanks for the info! cheers
yesterday i learned that Joe T thought the car already had a quickener, and it seems like he favors them.  Perhaps 5448 will come out of DCW with one.  My wish list with DCW seems to be growing. (big surprise, eh?)
karl
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« Reply #188 on: January 06, 2015, 08:57:06 AM »

lol   cheers
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Miss LIBERTY,  changing TKI  to noise, dust and RUST!!!

The # 1 issue is: TO KEEP THE REPUBLIC      
   Center for Self Governance            tncsg.org     mrspowell.org

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing."   Helen Keller
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« Reply #189 on: January 06, 2015, 08:52:05 PM »

Usually the quickeners are found in 1.5:1 and 2:1
They are hard to wear out, the round e round guys use them for years.
 cheers
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Stainless
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MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #190 on: January 10, 2015, 11:27:06 AM »

Didn't look to be hunting too much, I have seen much hairier cockpit video.
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« Reply #191 on: January 10, 2015, 09:24:06 PM »

Didn't look to be hunting too much, I have seen much hairier cockpit video.

I feel it is real hard to pick up on video as to what something really feels like.  I can see the tires/wheels going back and forth and it might not look like much but it could feel like a lot.  Kind of like go out in a boat when the waves start to really build and you take pictures of them and then later the pictures don't look like anything.  On the run where I thought the car was going to spin but the verticals caught it looking at the in-car or front view video it doesn't look like much but during the couple seconds and couple swings of the car it went from running down course on the far right side up against the markers to off the course on the left side running then with the left course markers on the cars right side.  So in a couple seconds it move a considerable distance to the left but the videos don't show much of that unless you pay attention to where the course markers are. 

If his wheels/tires are moving on their own as much as they appear I personally would want to improve on that and not just say I'll drive through it.

I guess the thing is are the wheels tires hunting on their own or is the car moving around and the driver trying to catch up with it when it might of just corrected itself and is that what we are seeing. 

I only got to drive Hooley's Stude about 5 runs and it hunts a little overall but is an easy one hand on the wheel drive where you aren't correcting, just letting it do its thing and overall it is going to run straight but no video on the tires/wheels like that to see what they are doing while the car is hunting some.

Sumner
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entropy
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« Reply #192 on: January 11, 2015, 09:37:20 AM »

I thank everyone for their input!
I am new at this but am trying to integrate your comments & advice
As tips are generated I keep track of them in the following list:

#5448 handling issue - (Put this material into pre-run visualization script)
FIRST:  Assure all car's handling-related set up components are"right" (took car to Joe Timney Dec 15, 2014)
.9 do a low-medium progressive speed pass, see what low-high steering input does to the car at increasing speeds
1. minimize amplitude of course corrections, "it WLL come back"
2. Keep a light touch on steering wheel, gentle, smooth course corrections,
3. Both hands on the steering wheel equally, be careful during shifting & parachute deployment
4. Any movement of the eye can be translated into movement of the hands...
5. Feedback: ask an experienced TFA-sized guy make a pass in the car (Tom?  Rex?  Stainless?)
6. small heading changes  without really changing the direction of travel that you need to learn to ignore
7. Tom sequence of "lane changing" see Oct 8, 2014
8. Wandering vs jinking, build into viz sequence
9. look way down the track, Do not fixate on cones/center line,  heading should be established and maintained for these horizon landmarks
10. minimize handling issues associated with large power changes: weight transfer, torque reaction,  yaw stability
11. tune the driver to recognize that lean angle was not directly correlated to vehicle direction and learn to ignore the lean angle and pay attention to the direction the truck was going
12.  much of the activity normal folks make priority in the cockpit is not even necessary, or could be done in more efficient sequences to reduce overall cockpit workload and rushed feelings
13. "Do not step out of the throttle when they start to misbehave"  "You need to consciously think about easing up, but not dropping the power"
14. Tom:   " Once you get your “viz tape” sequence and the responses sorted out lets work through them and see how much improvement we can make before you even start practicing in the car"
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« Reply #193 on: January 11, 2015, 12:09:52 PM »

15.  Move to Wyoming and drive in the snow every winter for weeks on end  cool,

Sum
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entropy
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« Reply #194 on: January 11, 2015, 12:47:42 PM »

15.  Move to Wyoming and drive in the snow every winter for weeks on end  cool,
Sum
LOLOLOLOLOL

I grew up in rural massachusetts and routinely drove "too fast for conditions" on snow/ice, only a few memorable miscalculations. 
"Karl, slow down, you'll never make that corner" 
(he was right)
karl
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