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Author Topic: Solo to Sidecar by STD  (Read 52821 times)
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Bruin
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« on: October 09, 2013, 09:11:45 PM »

After running my XR 500 solo for 5 years at BUB I decided to get jiggy and add a sidecar to it. I always liked sidecars since the Great Escape movie and the family that rides together, stays together. With the help of my friends on team STD I hope to be ready to ride for BUB 2014.Right now I'm gathering info, checking the rules, and scrounging for parts. As usual STD is on a "Making Doo" budget. The rig is going to be mounted on the left side for kickstart clearance. I slapped a few garage pieces together to start conceptualizing the build. Suggestions, tips and comments welcome.


* Trial.jpg (281.21 KB, 3436x2180 - viewed 282 times.)
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STD; Speed Team Doo
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'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #1 on: October 09, 2013, 11:36:45 PM »

The colors clash.  The bike needs to be painted like the sidecar.  Maybe that pinkish color with a light brown dot at the front of the fairing.   
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Jon
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« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2013, 01:39:08 AM »

Why does the sidecar have so much frontal area?

Cheers
jon
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Bruin
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« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2013, 01:58:34 AM »

Yo Bo, The whole thing will be painted cherry red like the bike. I save pink for my underwear. The car fairing looks a little bigger than it is but that is just the starting size. It will be cut down to fit my monkey as close as possible. And that fairing may yet be swapped out depending on what else I scrounge up.
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
Bruin
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« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2013, 02:21:36 AM »

This is a better shot at what the host bike looks like. My best speed topped at 106.8 mph. Not a record contender but not bad for a stock thumper engine.


* Example of solo.jpg (384.76 KB, 3101x1869 - viewed 247 times.)
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
Bruin
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« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2013, 10:38:20 AM »

This is what I have: A 1982 XR 500 modified frame, partial streamline, fuel class bike. APS-AF #5350. I run gas in it, the fuel designation is for convenience of fill-ups. The engine is 100% stock, the carb slightly oversize with a straight pipe exhaust. The fork tubes are lowered and the rear is rigid. It has a 75 wheelbase, rake 5 to 7 depending on where you set the tubes in the triple tree. Personal best speed is 106.8 mph.
What I'm looking to build. A BUB legal sidecar mounted on the left for kick arm clearance. Not sure about the outrigger size-type of wheel yet, depends on what I can scrounge, but as a hack dedicated to straight line salt racing, it looks like 0 toe-in and 0 lean (depending on outrigger wheel weight, the rule of thumb I saw is 20%) And spaced for the required 32" minimum track. I'm looking at mounting it a little forward, near halfway to be close to the center of gravity. I only need to turn on and off the track. To fit the bike on the trailer I think it will need to be a bolt-on rig. I'm building it with the intent of having a monkey and an appropriately sized fairing for her. But will also be prepared to run with weights (132 lbs).
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
Bruin
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« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2013, 10:05:58 AM »

I've been cogitating about what tire to put on the outrigger. Several have been suggested, motorcycle, bicycle, trailer, dragster, even wheelchair. Some have merit, some would court disaster. Then it dawned on me, a high speed racing go kart wheel! Nice size at 10" high, some are only 3" wide, and they are available as slicks. They are used on carts at speeds far over 100 mph. And they are affordable.
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
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« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2013, 11:03:01 AM »

A kart tire will work jut fine.  Except for the fact that a certain part of the SCTA's anatomy puckers at the thought of such thing.  Despite its safety being proved over several years of running.  Minimal frontal area should be the target.


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Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.
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« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2013, 11:38:25 AM »

Nortonist, Nice outside the box rig. Hopefully BUB won't pucker as easily at my wheel.
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
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« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2013, 12:36:23 PM »

It was fine until they got their panties in a wad over speed ratings.  I was given a 130 limit n the kart tire some years go.  Went over that last year and was told to change.  So I built an aluminum wheel.  Messed them up even more.  Didn't get to run El Mirage this year but did run Bonneville.


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Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.
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« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2013, 04:17:21 PM »

Bruin...........I think your going to have some fun............and you have a good basic design to make the build on a budget.  I have a small amount of experience on my part.......maybe helpful to you.  Bolt on is good..........sturdy plate on rear of bike frame.........adjustable upper and lower A-arm-type rods up front.

Plan on a very minor amount of toe-in to compensate for the side-flex against your mother-ship frame.  That side-pressure will also influence bushings, bearings, rear-wheel flex and traction at speed. The drag will have a 'pulling' effect to the side on the front and typically requires a fatter front tire.............on pavement a flat-profile works best.

I rode an ASCOT for a few years and taught my wife and daughter to ride on it.  Bigger carb, bigger jets, bigger output sprocket, and a stock muffler gave me the best performance. It sounded fast with a hollowed out mega..........but had better mid-range with the stock muffler and header.  Check your clutch for the added weight.

Keep us posted................there should be some more experienced help on the design as you get into it.
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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 130.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 137.7 mph
Chasis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre
Bruin
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« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2013, 11:26:52 PM »

Old Scrambler, congrats again on your 88+ run, well done. I'm keeping an eye open for a tuned XR muffler. What do you think about the manifold reed? My understanding is that it helps low end power but it seems an open throat would be best at wide open. (I found a smoothbore insert to swap with the reed.)
Nortonist, One of my peeps came through with a racing go kart wheel, a 10" tall slick front tire. It's a little fat but the price was perfect. It seems the metal wheels are growing in popularity. Is the ride a little rougher? Since the Kart wheel is about 5" wide and slick, I kinda wonder how much corrective toe-in counter steering it will add on the salt.
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
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« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2013, 01:00:46 AM »

Sounds like you have the identical kart wheel as I had.  I ran my wheel with zero toe in.  I gave it a bit of lean to (probably stupidly) try and reduce the contact area.  I never had any problems with it.  I had planned to run the aluminum wheel rigid as I had done with the kart wheel.  But I was persuaded to add suspension by some others that run solid wheels.  If you look at the photo you'll see I built a small swing arm set up and it worked amazingly well.  Never even knew the wheel was there during a run.

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Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.
Bruin
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« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2013, 11:02:01 AM »

If a racing Kart wheel is rated 130 mph, I'm probably safe since my best solo speed is 106. Did BUB say anything about a metal air stem on the Kart wheel? I wonder if pumping up the tire pressure will give it a little belly bulge and a narrower footprint. It looks like several sidecar rigs run monkey free. Is that because it is hard to find a monkey weighing less than 132 lbs with a 2 inch wind profile? A couple members of my race team are interested in riding along but they are regular sized humans.
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STD; Speed Team Doo
'82 Honda 500 APS-AF
'70 Triumph 250 MPS-PG
'71 Triumph 250 APS-PF
'70 Triumph 250 M-PG
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« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2013, 12:43:36 PM »

I like the exhaust-port smooth-bore insert as long as it is no smaller in flow-size as the exhaust value area.  Thanks for the compliment.......we have plans to return in 2014 for more speed.

On one run this year we removed the mega and added a 10" straight extension to the exhaust..............it was the slowest run and had the best wind advantage rolleyes

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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 130.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 137.7 mph
Chasis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre
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