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Author Topic: Tech  (Read 8634 times)
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JC Sparks
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« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2013, 10:34:31 AM »

 Let me make this clear,  I am by no means accusing anyone of cheating.  I just did not like the inconsistency of the tech department.
The tire was not to exceed 200 MPH.  But was allowed to set a record at 218 MPH. I congratulate the new record holder and look forward to
competing against them next year. JC
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Tman
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« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2013, 10:39:45 AM »

It is easy to see why things like this happen. There are so many tech vols out there that it has to be impossible to keep them all on the same page. Some things get overlooked, some things get looked at harder due to other events (tubing dia. this year was a hot button) and the lines get blurred. I chalk it up to human nature. Nothing more, nothing less in a totally non-accusing way. Just an observation.
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« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2013, 11:43:36 AM »

If the tire was allowed but with a speed limit of 200 MPH, and a run (or runs) were made then the tires reinspected, wouldn't a reasonable path be to raise the speed limit if the tire was demonstrating good behaviour?

I don't see this as being overlooked, inconsistant, or ruining the sport. I see it as tech guys being reasonable as more data becomes available.

Of course there are those with their personal agendas still scurrying about but this is LR so that's the norm...  rolleyes
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saltwheels262
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« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2013, 12:16:42 PM »

the rules are for everyone,
no matter what send you your running at.
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LSR Mike
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« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2013, 01:13:05 PM »

The SCTA doesn't have a way of policing speed limits on Vehicles that I know of. If one is placed on a competitor, how is it communicated to the Race Director? Starter? Timing Stand?



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Mike M.
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jlmccuan
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« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2013, 01:40:59 PM »

What are those orange stickers with "XXX MPH Max" written in magic marker for?
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« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2013, 01:48:11 PM »

Like I said earlier, with the tire situation as it is...... There needs to be some wiggle room for the racers that actually researches the tire that will work for their bike, and if need be, have backup documentation.

So far there seems to only be a couple "acceptable" tires, I'm sure given time there will be others added to the list. Got to run'em and inspect them closely for problems before you know what will work and which ones wont.

Rouse
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Johnnie Rouse
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« Reply #22 on: August 21, 2013, 02:30:54 PM »

If the tire was allowed but with a speed limit of 200 MPH, and a run (or runs) were made then the tires reinspected, wouldn't a reasonable path be to raise the speed limit if the tire was demonstrating good behaviour?

I don't see this as being overlooked, inconsistant, or ruining the sport. I see it as tech guys being reasonable as more data becomes available.

Of course there are those with their personal agendas still scurrying about but this is LR so that's the norm...  rolleyes

In reading the rule book, and now knowing this was a motorcycle, John has the right response.

In the 2013 rule book under section 7.B.8 page 111, it states that Tires rated "H" Cannot be used beyond the speed rating. Then it goes on to say that "Any run in excess of 200 mph requires that the contestant return to Technical inspection area where the tires shall be examined for apparent deterioration or damage before further runs are permitted."

So the way I read the rules is that the inspectors have the final say on how fast you can go with the particular tire involved depending on its condition.

Tom G. 
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Asking questions is one's only way of getting answers. As a young boy I was always taught that there is no such thing as a stupid question. It suggests that the quest for knowledge includes failure, and that just because one person may know less than others they should not be afraid to ask rather than pretend they already know. In many cases multiple people may not know but are too afraid to ask the "stupid question"; the one who asks the question may in fact be doing a service to those around them.
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« Reply #23 on: August 21, 2013, 02:51:56 PM »

The SCTA doesn't have a way of policing speed limits on Vehicles that I know of. If one is placed on a competitor, how is it communicated to the Race Director? Starter? Timing Stand?

The SCTA certainly does have a way to police speed limits.  Speed limit sticker is applied to vehicle (and annotated in log book), vehicle comes to line, starter sees speed limit and radios tower to be advised of speed limit.  Vehicle runs and if under limit all is good.  If over limit, vehicle is yellow tagged and sent back to tech.

A "verbal" speed limit isn't enforceable obviously so unless that vehicle had a speed limit sticker on it, it doesn't have a speed limit.

FWIW, Matt Shuss is pretty draconian when it comes to tech/safety/rules stuff.  I witnessed this first hand when I decided to escort a non-English speaking competitor to impound so as to make sure they got to the right spot in time.  Competitor had a turbo mounted under his seat and originally had an aluminum exhaust coming from it and naturally, a hole was blown through it so it was taken off.  Well Matt spotted this and said that they'd have to repair the exhaust and re-install it if they wanted to make a record run because the exahust gas stream was dangerously close to the rider's leg.  I really doubt that this was just some kind of oversight on anyone's part.   
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LSR Mike
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« Reply #24 on: August 21, 2013, 04:08:39 PM »

My last trip to the salt was in 2010, so apparently things have changed, I've never seen a MAX Speed Magic Marker Orange Tag on the Salt or at El Mirage when I was there. I see now in the rule book it was just added this year.
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Mike M.
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JohnLevie
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« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2013, 12:18:48 PM »

Now that we know the record was set at 218 mph, I can conclude the tire in question was mine.  This was on the 3411 1650 SC/G Scott Guthrie Racing entry.  The tire is a D1445 Front Runner, and mounted on the sidecar rig.  The rules clearly state that the tire is not to be used as a drive tire, which it was not.  The same type tire has been in use on this bike since 2007, has had multiple runs over 220, and has never had any attention paid to it (by tech) as it is not a drive wheel, until this year.  I appreciate the tech committee pointing out to us that we may have issues with this specific tire, and that we need to pay special attention to the tire.  The bike is new to us, and we expected a learning curve, as well as requesting extra scrutiny by the tech group to help point out any issues that may exist.  The tech group are the professionals in this area, and a fresh set of eyes to help us out is always appreciated.  They are here to help the racer and protect the rest of the competitors’ right to race. 
As the tire is not a typical bike tire, Lee Kennedy was asked to advise us on what he thought would be a proper method of gathering data on the tire. We appreciate a car tech official helping out on this, as they are the group with experience in the car tire arena.  This started with multiple 3 mile runs, the first couple being limited to 175, then to 200.  Then we were granted the rights to run to the 4 mile mark under power, but limited to 200 to see if there were any changes.  After this, we were granted a full power pass to the 4.  The first pass was 217 mph, which qualified us.  We took the bike to impound and ran a 219 back up run.  This set the record at 218. 
Keep in mind that immediately (before I could get my helmet strap removed) following EVERY run, Lee Kennedy was there to measure temperature and pressure change, where zero pressure change occurred, and the temperature of the tire raised by less than 3 degrees every run.  The attention that was paid to the tire ultimately gave us the ability to run to the 5, under full power, but we chose to license up my Father on the bike.  He did not exceed my speed; therefore we did not gain any valuable data for the 5 mile passes.  All of his runs were under 200.
Below is the note from tech:
 07/17/09
Following a report compiled by Tech Committee Chair, Cars Lee Kennedy, Motorcycle Committee Chair Van Butler and Goodyear Tire engineers the SCTA Board of Directors voted to make the 17x22x2.5 tire illegal for use as a DRIVE TIRE.
The tire in question is a 22x2.5 on a 17” rim and many tire manufacturers make this size of racing tire for drag racing.  It is made by Goodyear and is listed as a “Top Fuel” "Frontrunner" and has a tire code of D1445. Carroll Shelby has a part number of 808-102-089 or for the 22x4.5x17 a part number of 808-130-089. Some examples of other tire manufactures who make this tire include Mickey Thompson with a part number of 672-3004 and Phoenix tire with a part number of 932-PH460.
Thank you for observing the tech committee and their diligence to ensure that the competitors are safe, and ensure yourselves that no special privileges were given to anyone regarding the bending of any rules whatsoever.  Also, you can be sure that the interpretation of the rules if unclear is always to keep the racer safe, regardless of whom the inspector is.  Be it Van, Matt, Doug, Tom, or any of the other inspectors, both motorcycle and car.
YHS,
John Levie,
Scott Guthrie Racing
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sabat
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« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2013, 12:50:40 PM »

Well done John, and congrats on the red hat!  -Dean
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JohnLevie
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« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2013, 01:06:28 PM »

Thank you Dean!   
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joea
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« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2013, 01:19:28 PM »

super job, big congrats..!!
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JimL
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« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2013, 01:35:22 PM »

John, it was great to see your whole family there for your hat.  Sometimes we forget how much this is a family...both in kind and in spirit. 

Glad I got to shake your hand on that one.
Jim
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