Landracing Forum Home
November 23, 2017, 03:04:18 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
News:
BACK TO LANDRACING.COM HOMEPAGE
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  


(Note: Donations are not tax deductible)







Live Audio Streaming and Archives of Past Events
Next Live Event: TBD
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 ... 117   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: APS/Ω Gas turbine bike build  (Read 395672 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Stainless1
Administrator
Hero Member
***
Offline Offline

Age: 66
Location: Wichita KS
Posts: 6457


Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2013, 07:06:12 PM »

Nobody is going to inspect your welding at tech inspection unless the welds look obviously bad.  It is for your own safety that folks suggest having someone look at it if you are not a regular welder.  It makes a difference when you are welding CM to know what you are doing. 
Are you confident that the frame won't come apart at 200 MPH?
Have you put in ample braces and gussets to hold the weight of the bike and rider?
It is your butt on the seat.
Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
wobblywalrus
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 64
Location: backwoods Oregon
Posts: 4446





Ignore
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2013, 11:07:35 PM »

Sometimes it is a good idea to have some gussets and bracing to give the chassis some redundancy.  In other words, there is more than one weld holding together all of the vital stuff.  My Triumph is set up that way.  It is extra work but worth it for the "peace of mind" you will get when going fast on a bumpy track.     
Logged
Mobacken Racing
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: Östersund - Sweden
Posts: 808


Turbine junkie


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2013, 12:25:43 AM »

Thanks for the clarification, the tig welds look good and I am using the right filler rod so I am confident that they are strong enough. The frame will get more braces at the weak points later and I will add steel plates where the frame tubes meets the steering head as an extra safety.

I´ve been told to avoid putting too much heat into CrMo so I have been careful while welding.

Good to hear this so I won´t be anxious about the tech inspection, in drag racing you aren´t allowed to paint a CrMo frame so I thought the same rule applied here but then it would start to rust in no time in the salt. sad
Logged
DND
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Location: Granada Hills Ca.
Posts: 395





Ignore
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2013, 01:55:14 AM »

In the early drag racing days a fellow i knew bought a pro built top fuel car and the frame was gas welded with way too much heat.

He got into to a side wind in the finish line light's and it rolled and came all apart, and he lost his life.

The welds held but the parent metal next to the welds all split and came apart from the way to hot welding joints.

That is why it is good to have a pro look at your stuff , so you know inside that your welding is OK for future work.

You don't want to wait for cracks to show up , that is not good at all because if it gets welded together properly they should never crack.

Don
Logged
Mobacken Racing
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: Östersund - Sweden
Posts: 808


Turbine junkie


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2013, 04:03:14 PM »

I´ve heard stories about CrMo cracking just outside welds, shows how important it is to know the material well.

About another thing, just how much of the bike will be subjected to salt spray during a run? I guess it depends on how wet the salt is, so lets say in the worst possible conditions. I use the LSR5 front fender from Airtech by the way.

It is vital that no salt will reach the nose section of the fairings since the engine intake will be there, I cannot filter the air in any way since there isn´t anywhere near as much room as a non-restricting air filter would need. The engine consumes 1m3/s and even the smallest restriction in the air flow will cause overheating and possible engine damage.

Logged
saltwheels262
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Age: 63
Location: cumberland plateau
Posts: 1059


LTA 7/2013




Ignore
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2013, 06:15:34 PM »

the salt is going to get in places you didn't even know you had.
it will be everywhere. it's in the air.

keep the intakes plugged until you run.

it's been going on for over 60 years and the mill will survive.
Logged

bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
bub '10 - 158.100  sweetooth gear
lta  7/11 -163.389  7/17/11; 3 run avg.-162.450
ohio -    - 185.076 w/#684      
lta 8/14  - 169.xxx. w/sw2           
'16 -- 0 runs ; 0 events -- made a 2 state change in ZIP codes

" it's not as easy as it looks. "
                            - franey  8/2007
manta22
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Age: 79
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3011


What, me worry?




Ignore
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2013, 06:54:19 PM »

Anders;

Most race car and aircraft builders who use chrome- moly tubing use it in "Condition N", normalized. The weldment doesn't need to be heat- treated if it is welded properly. Gas welding spreads the heat over a wider area so the joint has less built- in stress than a TIG weld. TIG is fine, though, if it is carefully done.

That's an interesting project you have there.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Logged

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Crackerman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Alvord, Tx
Posts: 182




Ignore
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2013, 09:41:07 PM »

Dont be afraid to weld, cut, break a few test coupons. It will tell you alot about the condition you leave a weld joint. If the parent metal lets go, or the weld does.
Logged
Mobacken Racing
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: Östersund - Sweden
Posts: 808


Turbine junkie


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2013, 03:17:00 AM »

the salt is going to get in places you didn't even know you had.
it will be everywhere. it's in the air.

keep the intakes plugged until you run.

it's been going on for over 60 years and the mill will survive.

Ok, so it is like fine dust blowing around?

What about during the run, some turbo vehicles run filterless with the intake high up in front. Are they still ingesting salt or is the air there free from particles? The compressor would show signs of wear on the inducer edges very soon if salt is present in the air.
Logged
Mobacken Racing
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: Östersund - Sweden
Posts: 808


Turbine junkie


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2013, 03:20:46 AM »

Anders;

Most race car and aircraft builders who use chrome- moly tubing use it in "Condition N", normalized. The weldment doesn't need to be heat- treated if it is welded properly. Gas welding spreads the heat over a wider area so the joint has less built- in stress than a TIG weld. TIG is fine, though, if it is carefully done.

That's an interesting project you have there.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ

Early CrMo dragrace frames were soldered and that seems to work as well, I´ll show the frame to my frame building friend and stop worrying about it.

Thanks! smiley
Logged
Mobacken Racing
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: Östersund - Sweden
Posts: 808


Turbine junkie


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2013, 03:21:44 AM »

Dont be afraid to weld, cut, break a few test coupons. It will tell you alot about the condition you leave a weld joint. If the parent metal lets go, or the weld does.

That is a good idea, never hurts to do some tests to see how much heat is needed to weaken the surrounding metal.
Logged
manta22
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Age: 79
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 3011


What, me worry?




Ignore
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2013, 10:47:07 AM »

"Early CrMo dragrace frames were soldered and that seems to work as well, I´ll show the frame to my frame building friend and stop worrying about it. "

Anders;

I think you might mean "Brazed"....ordinary lead/tin soft solder is nowhere near strong enough for structures.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Logged

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
Mobacken Racing
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 36
Location: Östersund - Sweden
Posts: 808


Turbine junkie


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2013, 12:56:06 PM »

"Early CrMo dragrace frames were soldered and that seems to work as well, I´ll show the frame to my frame building friend and stop worrying about it. "

Anders;

I think you might mean "Brazed"....ordinary lead/tin soft solder is nowhere near strong enough for structures.

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ


Hi Neil,

Of course, here in Sweden we call it hard soldering so I simply used the wrong word.
Logged
maj
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Age: 54
Location: Vic Australia
Posts: 650





Ignore
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2013, 03:04:02 PM »

Part of the international flavor of this group, we get to know all the different words and spellings

I find myself spelling things differently here than an Australian forum

The salt is often slightly damp, but with a sometimes dusty surface , depending on traffic etc

we get very little salt in the bikes with front air intake , much less than the turbo with low intake and filter
 but still see signs of minor tip wear over over a couple of yrs, not sure if the foam rubber seal at the turbo intake is 100% either
potentially this is more of an issue than front air with a good front fender   
Logged
Crackerman
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Location: Alvord, Tx
Posts: 182




Ignore
« Reply #44 on: March 29, 2013, 03:39:46 PM »

I thought the grain structure was too tight to properly braze, weakening the parent metal dramatically, making it very brittle? Or an I thinking of the wrong metal?
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 ... 117   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
Simple Audio Video Embedder
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!


Google visited last this page June 23, 2017, 05:15:51 PM