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Author Topic: 2013 Changes to Hooley's 974 Studebaker  (Read 29315 times)
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Sumner
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« Reply #120 on: August 26, 2013, 01:44:31 PM »

I put up 3 pages on finishing the vertical stabilizers for the wing and also the new smaller wing build.  I'll post some of the pictures here.

First I took some off the top of the framework....



....that Hooley had made on the car when it was in OK.

Next...



.... 3/4 inch round tubing was welded to the top and the leading and trailing edges.

Then....



.... 20 gauge skins were applied to the front and back of the frames.

Next....



... a framework for the trailing edge was applied to the main framework.

One ....



...ready for the trailing edge....



.... to be skinned.

The skin....



... was welded around all the perimeters (over 30 feet of weld on each vertical).  There was major warpage since I was trying to make these as Hooley and Ken were driving from OK to Utah so not much time for welds to cool.

I turned the verticals over to ....



... first Bill and Frank to apply a lot of bondo to.  They then had to leave and....



...Charlie managed to finish them off very well considering the time restraints he was under.

They were...



...installed and painted, after midnight, Friday and we left late Saturday for the Salt about 2 1/2 days later than planned.

The car on...



... the salt (picture by Tom).

I'll do a separate post on the small wing that was built in a day and that Charlie also finished off.

There are a lot more pictures and more detailed info starting here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-20.html

Sum
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« Reply #121 on: August 26, 2013, 02:08:17 PM »

Sum, your work looks great!

Just an idea, as round stock is really not very aero-how about 'knife' edging the leading edge?
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Sumner
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« Reply #122 on: August 26, 2013, 02:21:02 PM »

Sum, your work looks great!

Just an idea, as round stock is really not very aero-how about 'knife' edging the leading edge?


Thanks for the input.  The air is only seeing 1/2 of the round and that is more teardrop shaped than knife edging or at least that is my feeling.  You are right that a round object is not the most aero shape.  They do taper to the trailing edge at under 7 degrees.

Here is a quote from one of the build pages....

Quote
I'm hoping that the CdA of each vertical stabilizers is around .035 [(33 X .75)/144 X .2], but this is just a guess as well as the figure for the wing. I believe the wing is considerably more aero than the vertical stabilizers.

Both the verticals together are only adding about .35 of a square foot to the frontal area ,

Sum
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 11:55:30 AM by Sumner » Logged

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« Reply #123 on: August 26, 2013, 02:47:51 PM »

Sum, thanks for the explanation!
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
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« Reply #124 on: August 26, 2013, 03:07:09 PM »

Sum, it's great to see your build pictures again, no matter which build. I'm looking forward to seeing some for your lakester in the not to distant future.  grin grin cheers

Pete
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Sumner
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« Reply #125 on: August 26, 2013, 04:32:32 PM »

Sum, it's great to see your build pictures again, no matter which build. I'm looking forward to seeing some for your lakester in the not to distant future.  grin grin cheers

Pete

Thanks hopefully that will happen soon.   Hooley has to release me from the Stude first  cool.

 Anyone know the whereabouts of a 302 GMC straight 6?

Sum
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« Reply #126 on: August 26, 2013, 04:44:14 PM »

Anyone know the whereabouts of a 302 GMC straight 6?

Sum

No, but I know where Caddy flatheads are! wink wink grin
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With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead. -- RFC 1925

You can't make a race horse out of a pig. But if you work hard enough at it you can make a mighty fast pig. - Bob Akin

http://www.flatcadracing.org/
Sumner
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« Reply #127 on: August 26, 2013, 07:34:31 PM »

Anyone know the whereabouts of a 302 GMC straight 6?

Sum

No, but I know where Caddy flatheads are! wink wink grin

I know where there is a 189 mph one that might get a person or two into the 2 club in a lakester  cool,

Sum
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« Reply #128 on: August 27, 2013, 05:46:57 PM »

While Hooley and (OK) Ken were on their way to Utah I had second thoughts about the ....



... large wing that we had found and were planning on trying.  We had looked for a smaller symetrical foil hellicopter blade with no luck so decided to try the larger one.  Since we had changed the car so much with the longer wheelbase and motor change and some people that I respect commented on the large wing I decided to try and design and make a smaller one if time would permit.  So laying in bed at 4 in the morning after going to sleep around midnight I designed a wing and asked Ruth if she had paper and a pen next to the bed.



Above is what I came up with.  The main points to it is that it "is small",  I don't think it is capable of creating much lift or downforce, and the construction was straight forward and yet strong.   This is not a copy of a known wing shape so please if anyone wants to try and duplicate it be forewarned that you are doing this completely on your own.

I designed the wing to be symmetrical, top and bottom surfaces, and to be as aero, least drag, that I could by keeping the angle to the trailing edge under 7 degrees.  There is more about it on the build page and of course a lot more pictures and info here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-22.html

Here are a couple pictures of the wing under-construction ....









(Ohio) Ken above and I made the wing in less than a day and....



...Charlie did the bondo work on it.  It wasn't near the bodywork adventure that the verticals were as warpage was minimal.

I painted it at midnight the night before we left for the salt.....



... and we were very please with how it and ....



.... the verticals worked on the salt.  We kept the angle of attack to 2 degrees and have no idea at this point if it is giving us downforce or not.  As speeds increase we will play with the angle of attack and also decide if we should try the large wing.

Again more info here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/Hooley%202013/13%20-%20hooley-construction-2013-22.html

Sum
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« Reply #129 on: August 28, 2013, 02:40:46 PM »

I added some video of my license runs last night.  We have in-car and out-the-front video from the first 3 runs.  Then I think we left the cameras on and ran the batteries sown as the last 3 runs we only have a few minutes of video from each run (guess the batteries recharged while off a little on their own).   Those videos were of some value as we can see the oil temp on the dash before each run and can see that it was getting hotter and hotter as the last 4 runs were back to back.  We really shouldn't of made the A license run that day knowing what we know now.  Should of gone to the pits and cooled everything down.  Next time we will be much more careful and watch the oil temps and change some of the water between each run in the main 30 gallon tank that feeds the rad-in-a-box and change water and add a lot more ice to the intercooler tank since hopefully we will be running more boost.

Here are two videos from the C license run (150-175 mph)my second run after getting the D license) and it is pretty boring but shows the starter and you can also see how well the car handles.  The only time I moved the wheel was a couple short WOT experiments when the tires got loose going into boost and the car jumped a little sideways.
  
In-Car:  

Down-Track:  

the 2 mile was 168.846, 2 1/4 177.085, 3 mile was 173.66.  I pushed the 2 1/4 speed a little higher than I should of but was trying to see if getting 175 at the 2 1/4 to qualify the car for the long course was going to be a problem as they wanted us to re-qualify the car with all the changes to it.  We did not try to use that speed to go to the long course, but used my speed on my B license run the next day.

Next up is video from my first attempt at a B license (175-200 mph).  I was trying to run 190 at the 2 1/4 and when I went to WOT before the 2 the throttle stuck wide open for 3 seconds.  The car jumped sideways and I lifted as I had done on previous runs but the throttle was stuck wide open.  This was at 178 mph according to the data log at that point.  The tail of the car continued to the right very quickly and I felt for sure it was going to go all the way around so didn't pull the chute as it would of just wrapped around the car.  I steered into the slide and the vertical stabilizers caught the car and sent it the other way but not quite as far.  Then I waited until the car started to swing the other way and pull the chute just before it was lined up with down-track.  The chute came out and the car settled down.  Of course all of that happened a lot quicker than you can read about it.

In-car:  

Down-track (keep track of the horizon):  

We took the car back to the staging line and Hooley added a 3rd throttle spring that was also at a better angle to the linkage at WOT and never had a throttle problem after that run.  No more videos after that run, but a short run-down.

The next run, for the B license, I screwed up and shifted from 1st to 4th.  Instead of trying a down shift I left it there to see how the car would pull under load.  I had a 122 mile 2 speed, 145 at the 2 1/4 and a 156 3 mile speed.  According to the rpm at the exit the car was running over 180 though so that was good.

Finally got my act back together on the next B license run and ran  a 155 2 mile, a 188.726 at the 2 1/4 (qualified for the long course) and  a 186.560 3 mile as I just ran through at the same rpm trying not to screw anything up.

We went right over to the #2 long course and ran (should of waited to next day) and again I just wanted a smooth run for an A license.  Ran a 153 2 mile,  178 at the 2 1/4, 188 3rd mile, 208 4th mile and a 213 5th mile.  I ran the second half of the 3, all the 4 and all the 5 at about 50% throttle and about the same rpm as I didn't have my rpm sheet with me before the run.  When I saw the exit traps coming up I got in it a little and ran a 217.997 exit speed.  The oil temp was pegged at 300.

The next day after looking at the filter we decided to quit but later found no engine damage once Hooley got the engine to his place.

At this point I'd call the rear vertical stabilizers a major success as I'm sure the car would of spun without them on the one run and on the other runs the car was as straight as an arrow as long as the tires didn't break loose and when they did it was very predictable and returned to straight as soon as you lifted just a bit.  On the near spin I thought for sure the forces might of laid the verticals over but they survived with no bending or damage at all.

I was really happy to of been able to drive the car and run over 200.  Thanks Hooley and all the other guys who worked on the car and a special thanks to my wife, Ruth who has been very supportive on this whole deal.,

Sum

« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 12:02:09 PM by Sumner » Logged

Sumner
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« Reply #130 on: August 30, 2013, 02:32:55 PM »

Here is a reminder that might save someone else from a problem.  Know your equipment.  Case in point......

When Hooley built the Stude we decided on a G-Force 101 transmission.   They had been used by NASCAR and in other series and could take a lot of HP and you could get a multitude of gear ratios for 1st, 2nd and 3rd with 4th being straight through and 1 to 1.  The other nice feature about the transmission is that 3rd can be an overdrive gear which then makes 4th (1:1) into 3rd gear.  Flop the linkage over and it shifts in the normal H pattern.

We settled on what I thought was the highest first gear, a 1.93 to one and a 1.34 2nd and the 1:1 3rd and a .93 4th overdrive.  We also have a 2.47 ford rear-end. 

Besides the wide range of available gears the transmission has a number of different input drive and cluster drive gears that widens your choice of the lowest gear (3.656) to the tallest gear (.747) depending on the input/cluster gears you chose and the other gears.

On my A license run, which was the first run using 4th I couldn't figure out why our speed according to the data log and to me seeing the tach was so far off the timing slip.  According to my speed speadsheet  at 6200 the car should of been running 240 and the slip was 218 at the exit from the 5 mile.

Well yesterday I removed the inspection plate and counted all the gear teeth.  I found out that we had different input/cluster gears than we thought we had all of this time.  I used what we thought we had to pick out a new taller 4th gear for this year and with the actual gear set we do have 4th was actually lower than what we had in the past.  When I put in the correct gear set in the spreadsheet the data numbers lined up exactly with the time slip.

So this was a $400 mistake since G-Force won't take the gears back or give us a credit even though they were only run abut 2 miles  cry

We are now looking for cheaper used gears on the internet or possibly changing the input/cluster gears to work with the new overdrive gear.

The moral of the story is know what you have  cry,

Sum
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« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2013, 06:12:49 PM »

Buddy,  about the round nose---according to PP---

"It doesn't much matter how you open the hole---its all about how you close the hole"

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« Reply #132 on: August 31, 2013, 12:32:49 PM »

We are now looking for cheaper used gears on the internet or possibly changing the input/cluster gears to work with the new overdrive gear.

Sum

Check with Tom Sarda a.k.a. Gear Guy LLC, co-founder of the ECTA. He has tons of 101/101-A experience and parts. He also has a multitude of 9" and QC parts & knowledge. 336-263-0287
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« Reply #133 on: August 31, 2013, 01:02:05 PM »

We are now looking for cheaper used gears on the internet or possibly changing the input/cluster gears to work with the new overdrive gear.

Sum

Check with Tom Sarda a.k.a. Gear Guy LLC, co-founder of the ECTA. He has tons of 101/101-A experience and parts. He also has a multitude of 9" and QC parts & knowledge. 336-263-0287

Thanks, I have 3 leads to possible solutions now but will talk to him right after the holiday weekend. 

There are lots of gears on the internet and I've found people with them, but the problem is we need the greatest overdrive gears they made or the tallest input/cluster drive gears we can find and there wasn't much call for the tall gears so not as many out there.

I will check with him though so thanks for the heads-up,

Sum
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« Reply #134 on: September 01, 2013, 08:45:37 AM »

 cheers cheers cheers congrats on your runs.
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