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Author Topic: Ducati powered MPS750-F project  (Read 16636 times)
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Duck-Stew
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« Reply #75 on: April 12, 2013, 11:33:11 PM »

It's the RPM that kills these Duc twins which is ironic due to the tremendous capacity for the cylinder heads to flow air...  The guys who were racing the 749R's and holding redline to 11K rpm would go all season on a motor.  11.5K rpm netted a rebuild every few races and if you got it up around 12-13K rpm, it would maybe last a single race.

There's a guy in Australia running a turbo'd 749R drag bike making 234rwhp (unknown boost levels and type of fuel) and all his dyno graphs end abruptly @ 11000rpm...  With good reason.

It's a known weakness this rpm cap. I just think some nitrous on a fresh rebuild ought to net me at least 2 seasons on the motor making ~175hp.  After that, we have larger aspirations.
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Team UnorthoDUX

Ducati powered land-speed racing team
Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #76 on: April 13, 2013, 11:53:07 AM »

If you don't have much experience with nitrous you should talk with Stainless as I think he has a pretty good collection of Suzuki piston ash trays that resulted from his nitrous use.

Rex
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Rex

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wobblywalrus
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« Reply #77 on: April 13, 2013, 10:46:00 PM »

Duck, turbocharging has proven to be the most reliable way to make LSR style power in the modern Triumph Bonneville twins.
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Stainless1
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« Reply #78 on: April 13, 2013, 11:04:53 PM »

If you don't have much experience with nitrous you should talk with Stainless as I think he has a pretty good collection of Suzuki piston ash trays that resulted from his nitrous use.

Rex

Actually the collection is Kawasaki pistons... and rods.  If you are thinking about N20, search the site, there is a lot of info posted.  Don't assume the kit you buy will work, most are designed for drag racers, test your system and know the mixture you are using. 
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Duck-Stew
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« Reply #79 on: April 13, 2013, 11:46:18 PM »

Duck, turbocharging has proven to be the most reliable way to make LSR style power in the modern Triumph Bonneville twins.

Turbo? Yeah, that's on tap for 2014...

If you don't have much experience with nitrous you should talk with Stainless as I think he has a pretty good collection of Suzuki piston ash trays that resulted from his nitrous use.

Rex

Actually the collection is Kawasaki pistons... and rods.  If you are thinking about N20, search the site, there is a lot of info posted.  Don't assume the kit you buy will work, most are designed for drag racers, test your system and know the mixture you are using. 

Key points! Thank you...  We have a lot to learn that hopefully won't lead to a collection of Ducati shrapnel!
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stay`tee
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« Reply #80 on: April 14, 2013, 05:42:39 AM »

It's the RPM that kills these Duc twins which is ironic due to the tremendous capacity for the cylinder heads to flow air...


How much cfm do thay flow, ?? 
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First Australian to ride a motorcycle over 200mph at Bonneville,,,
Duck-Stew
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« Reply #81 on: April 14, 2013, 07:16:49 AM »

It's the RPM that kills these Duc twins which is ironic due to the tremendous capacity for the cylinder heads to flow air...

How much cfm do thay flow, ??  

I'll be getting them flowed before & after porting so #'s are coming soon.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 07:18:56 AM by Duck-Stew » Logged

Team UnorthoDUX

Ducati powered land-speed racing team
wobblywalrus
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« Reply #82 on: April 14, 2013, 10:45:34 AM »

Duck, all engines have their limits.  11,000 rpm on a 750 twin with that bore stroke ratio is a darn strong motor.  Keep in mind that oversquare engines have large pistons with correspondingly increased inertial loads when they reverse direction.

The engine needs to last through the passes to get a license, probably a bunch more to get everything sorted, and a down and return run.  Also, the salt can be slippery and you will lose traction or the gearing can be miscalculated, and the engine will be running at higher than intended rpm.  The LSR state of tune is less than for drag motors for these reasons.

A way of approaching this is to develop a good data collection system and accrue some baseline information from actual use with a milder tune, such as engine inspections from periodic teardowns, and exhaust gas and cyl head temperatures.  Then, incrementally tune for more power with an eye on the data you are collecting.  Also, master the turbo and the nitrous separately before you mix the two.

The numbers you have for HP are pretty high and might not be realistic for LSR.  Also, personal safety worries and concern for others at the event, especially the insurance we all pay, means it is best to approach the limits from the safe side.  It might take five or more years to get all of the potential out of that engine.   
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gsx-rboy750
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« Reply #83 on: April 24, 2013, 10:27:29 AM »

on the turbo note just getting ready for a LSR meet and dynoed a stock 750 GSXR(with a turbo) at 240 and 103 on 8lbs and a 100% stock motor on some exotic ethanol.
I highly dought I could have broken 200rwhp with spray without breaking something and then at WOT for 20-30seconds.

When you do turbo I recommend doing a big intercooler, nice turbo and ethanol or methanol for LSRing.
I wish you had more pics.


« Last Edit: April 24, 2013, 10:30:39 AM by gsx-rboy750 » Logged

check out NoRegretPerformance on FB.
200mph on a 100% stock 750 motor, pump e85 in the standing mile.
Duck-Stew
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« Reply #84 on: April 24, 2013, 10:54:07 AM »

I wish I had more pics!  LOL...

Been a bit slow going of late.  Made some progress, but I haven't been 'full on' it for a spell now.

SpeedHut gauges are set to arrive today.  Got a Brembo radial brake master for the rear caliper.  Been setting up the chassis and adapting the front axle for the Honda wheel...

That's about all this time.  undecided
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Team UnorthoDUX

Ducati powered land-speed racing team
joea
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« Reply #85 on: April 24, 2013, 11:01:17 AM »

in your research...not sure if you have talked to William at:

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/BonnevilleProjects.html

great source of expert info.....

as it relates to building and racing ducatis in various forms, including nitromethane, turbo etc
but namely....bonneville.....
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mergatroyd
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« Reply #86 on: May 06, 2013, 01:34:08 AM »

This is going to be fun...  afro

I'm the thick-skinned, hubris-ridden side of this jobbie and I'm reading all of your old posts for information and ideas on the tune for this monster  tongue... I think we'll be fast.  Flames to me... props to Duck-Stew.

 grin

Did I mention this is going to be fun?  I don't know what the story is behind the afro smiley, but I like it. 

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I have no idea what I'm doing... but it seems to be working!
Duck-Stew
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« Reply #87 on: May 06, 2013, 08:49:59 AM »

A little team clarification: mergatroyd is a member of Team UnorthoDUX and has been charged with the tuning and software aspects.

He's also an SCTA member and will be riding the "UnorthoDUCK #1".  afro
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Ducati powered land-speed racing team
Duck-Stew
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« Reply #88 on: May 08, 2013, 09:17:19 AM »

Well, the verdict finally came in yesterday:  The 749R crankshaft we have is usable.  ::Whew!::  Trying to find a replacement that wasn't damaged was proving difficult.  The connecting rod bearings were within 100 miles of catastrophic failure when the motor came apart though (which would've taken out the crank & the titanium connecting rods as well...).

Our pistons and engine cases, however, are not fine.  So, some low-mileage used pistons were located out of London and we managed to score a pair of *BRAND NEW* engine cases off Flea-bay.




The project continues...  evil

in your research...not sure if you have talked to William at:

http://www.motorcycleperf.com/BonnevilleProjects.html

great source of expert info.....

as it relates to building and racing ducatis in various forms, including nitromethane, turbo etc
but namely....bonneville.....

I have spoken to William.  We had a good converstaion.  Thanks!
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Team UnorthoDUX

Ducati powered land-speed racing team
Duck-Stew
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« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2013, 04:35:49 PM »

Work was furious this weekend (now that my schedule has cleared up!).

Mergatroyd made the ride over from Arizona to New Mexico and we slaved away all weekend.

Quick Highlights:
Plans have been set in motion.
Our 2013 goals have been finalized.
Motor plans have been finalized.
Chassis has been finalized.
Building has commenced on final chassis bits/pieces.
Crankcases are due any day now.
Crankshaft & rods ship back to us tomorrow.
Pistons ship tomorrow.
Controls have been dialed in and fitted.
Gauge mounting points finalized.

A few things left to sort, but mostly now it's attacking the 'To-Do' list with a vengance!
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Team UnorthoDUX

Ducati powered land-speed racing team
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