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Author Topic: Buddfab Streamliner  (Read 29232 times)
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #45 on: October 30, 2006, 10:17:48 AM »

Eric,
Checked your site for the story of your Oct. El Mirage race and see that you had some fogging problems. I raced bikes in the desert for years and wore glasses all the time and I know what it is like to have them and your goggles fog over. The very best thing I ever found was using liquid soap, it doesn't seem to matter what kind but the proceedure is this:
Coat the lense or sheild with a thin layer of liquid soap, if you are doing glasses and also using a face sheild coat both sides of the glasses and probably the sheild too. Let it set for 5 minutes and then with SOFT cloth towles polish the lenses until they are clear and shiney. Done deal! they will not fog up! Works a hundred times better than your anti fog cloth and usually will last all day. Will also work on the inside of your wind screen.

I did this for years and even used it on the Lola T600 I was working on when we ran at the Daytona 24 hour, it was the only thing that would work if you didn't have a defroster.

Rex
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John Noonan
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« Reply #46 on: October 30, 2006, 04:50:09 PM »

Quote from: Rex Schimmer
Eric,
Checked your site for the story of your Oct. El Mirage race and see that you had some fogging problems. I raced bikes in the desert for years and wore glasses all the time and I know what it is like to have them and your goggles fog over. The very best thing I ever found was using liquid soap, it doesn't seem to matter what kind but the proceedure is this:
Coat the lense or sheild with a thin layer of liquid soap, if you are doing glasses and also using a face sheild coat both sides of the glasses and probably the sheild too. Let it set for 5 minutes and then with SOFT cloth towles polish the lenses until they are clear and shiney. Done deal! they will not fog up! Works a hundred times better than your anti fog cloth and usually will last all day. Will also work on the inside of your wind screen.

I did this for years and even used it on the Lola T600 I was working on when we ran at the Daytona 24 hour, it was the only thing that would work if you didn't have a defroster.

Rex


Rex,

Thanks for the great info.. Tongue
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Reverend Hedgash
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« Reply #47 on: November 04, 2006, 09:15:29 PM »

That is indeed good info Rex!

Also a Lola T600 hey? Which engine config? Porsche, Chev? I wonder how one of those would do on the salt...

Sorry to be off topic Buddfab, keep up the great work and bring it to Lake Gairdner!

Rev.H+
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2006, 01:13:26 PM »

I worked for Interscope Racing, Danny Ongias, we had two T600s with 355 small block Chevs and one with a turbo V6 Chev. All the engines were by Ryan Falconer. In 82 we were runner up in IMSA but only ran three races in 83 then the owner, Ted Field decided to get into the movies and he stopped racing. Ted got his money the hard way, when his dad died he inherited $500,000,000! so he could afford to have lots of race cars! We also had two Kremer Bros 935 K3s and one of their K4s which was a real sh-t box. It was a great team to work for first class everything. That's where I meet Danny Thompson, Mickey's son, he was a fabricator/welder for the IMSA and Indy car teams. Great time!

Rex
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« Reply #49 on: November 05, 2006, 02:07:54 PM »

Hey I also worked on the Ongais lola! It was in a hanger in Oceanside and i made the headlight covers and did a lot of repair on the belli pans!
kent
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whitworthsocket
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« Reply #50 on: December 26, 2006, 10:20:51 PM »

Hello John and Eric,
I like your work and it has paid dividends.
I have a few questions.
1.I see that you have put a tail fin on in your build photos. Did the fin have a good effect on stability?
2. Can I buy a fire system like yours or have you custom built it.
3. What triggering system do you use for the parachute and fire system.
Regards

Whitworthsocket.
Western Australia
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Whitworthsocket
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« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2006, 04:23:40 PM »

1) The tail helps with stability when the wind is nearly a direct headwind.  This is always the case at high speed, as an example: when a 10 mph side wind (90 degrees) combines with a 150 mph headwind (vehicle ground speed) it produces an effective off axis head wind of less than 4 degrees.  Assuming the vehicle center of gravity is ahead of the center of pressure, the tail would produce a torque that counters the side wind automatically (without any help from tire traction).  Unfortunately at very low speed the tail just adds to the side area and makes it more sensitive to side winds, a tail that is closer to the ground will lower the center of pressure height and reduce this detrimental effect somewhat but it is also less effective because it is operating in dirtier air.  We reduced the size of the tail after our first Bonneville meet and I think that helped.  Lately cross wind stability has been more than adequate.  We recently tested at El Mirage with 15 mph wind gusts and stability hasn?t been a problem.  The low speeds, small size, short wheelbase and quick steering allow the Buddfab streamliner to react quicker to side winds than the bigger liners.

At Bonneville this year John or my typical run would start out wobbly, a series of S turns is needed to pull it off the landing gear (at about 20 mph) and find balance.  It doesn?t feel unstable just quick steering (like a road bicycle but quicker) we have to concentrate on very gentle handlebar inputs, the low center of gravity and pointy tires allow it to roll and turn very quickly.  As the speed comes up, the wheels spin faster, and the steering gets heavier, at about 70 mph it feels like a very light street motorcycle, at 100 mph it feels like a 600cc sport bike and from there up through 130 mph it just got stiffer and more stable.  I hope this trend continues up past 200 mph (if we someday go with a big motor).  The plan is to put progressively more powerful engines in it (in 2007 we will run the 50cc more as we develop the fuel system, then step up to the 100cc class).  As we go faster we will undoubtedly require more design changes.

2) This is approximately (different brand) the fire system that we use, when we go over 150 mph we will have to run a 10 lb. System.  If you don?t have room for the pull handle you could use an electric system, this has the advantage of easily adding multiple activation switches.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=3155

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecId=4430

3) The parachute is activated by an electric push button from the handle bar or if it tips over or does something particularly violent, by a pair of mercury tilt switches

(7 amp @ 120 VAC part #7689K53 from  McMaster-Carr Supply Company).

http://www.mcmaster.com

We have never had the mercury switches misfire on the track; but the chute has come out after a big bump while practicing on a rough area (not on the course) at El Mirage.


What are you building?  The world needs more liners.
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whitworthsocket
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« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2006, 02:12:15 PM »

Eric,
How did you guess?  grin With questions like mine that Im building a liner.
Its going to be an Omega class powered machine.
Thanks very much for the information. Especially about the vehicle dynamics

I have had a good  look at the pegasus racing site. Great!

Eric with the wisdom of hindsight is there any thing saftey wise that you would have done differently?
 Regards

Whitworthsocket
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Whitworthsocket
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« Reply #53 on: December 30, 2006, 01:57:57 AM »

I suspect that your first thought is to lay out the engine compartment and suspension, do that second, the mechanical components can be configured over a much larger range than the driver can.  Start by mocking up the driver?s compartment and roll bar, then package the other things around it.  John and I measured and mocked up our liner before we bought the required thick fire suits.  Obtain a full set of gear including helmet, seatbelts and arm restraints. Make sure you can use the controls, unlatch the belts and canopy, and get out of from under the rollbar quickly, you lose a lot of flexibility with the required kit. Being able to see out the front is also a nice early priority. 

John designed and built a lot of roadrace cars over the years and I?ve designed a lot of hardware, motorcycle and bicycle parts, but this is our first liner, we?re new at this, look at how other people do things. Go to Sumner Patterson?s site:
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/bvillecar/bonneville-Index.html
He has collected photos and information from people with a lot more land speed racing experience than we have.
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Glen
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« Reply #54 on: December 30, 2006, 10:23:41 AM »

A cheap and easy way for a mock up is to use PVC pipe. Easy to cut and fit. It will give you the guide lines for laying the real pipe. grin
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« Reply #55 on: December 30, 2006, 10:47:14 AM »

Eric and Glen,
Thankyou for the information.
I am still a way off construction. I guess with all projects the design process is critical to success.
I will post my design to a webpage in due course.

Regards
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Whitworthsocket
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« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2006, 11:50:29 AM »

A cheap and easy way for a mock up is to use PVC pipe. Easy to cut and fit. It will give you the guide lines for laying the real pipe. grin

With the PVC you can bend it with heat from hot water, a heat lamp, hair drier , and even a 1000 watt flood lamp like you might use on a construction project.
You can use all the same tooling to fit the tubing and that sample can be taken to a bender to duplicate and you already know it fits.
What ever rider position you select the construction of the rider area is dictated by the rules.
 The fact that you need the same protection for you is a plus because if you have the same cockpit construction and safety features for whatever power supp;y and level you evolve into over the life of the project.
You don't want any open ends in the tubing structure that can collect moisture from the environment and deteriorate it from the inside where you can't see it.
When you are done with the welding, sometimes the frame is filled and then drained with Linseed oil to give it a protective coating.
Another method is to interconnect all the tubes with a very small hole and pressurize it with dry nitrogen.
With a Schrader valve in 1 area and a gauge from a Fire bottle in another it not only keeps the moisture out but offers an easy crack check.
Argon as a backup gas will improve the welding quality also.
Use as many stock MC parts as you can because they are cheap , easy to fit, and as strong as you will ever need until you are really really going really fast .

ENJOY
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« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2006, 12:34:06 PM »

This is what the Ack Attack liner uses. From a previous post:
Quote
This is what we use

http://www.riekerinc.com/E-Inclinometers/SlopeAlert.htm

We use a 2 axis.  45 degree for side to side and 10 degree for nose up.

They are relatively cheap about $80.00 for single axis and $180.00 for two axis.

All solid state and pretty much bullet proof. we tried all sorts of vibration and shock levels and they won't go off unless you exceed the programed angles.
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Rex Schimmer
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« Reply #58 on: January 15, 2007, 05:12:15 PM »

Eric, I saw your "bike" at the S.F. Rod and Custom show for the first time and it is very neat as I have always thought but I wonder a little about the two rows of what appear to be 10-32 button head screws on each side of the bike. These things just cause flow seperation, any thought of going with flat head, counter sunk screws??

Rex
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« Reply #59 on: January 15, 2007, 07:25:38 PM »

It?s all an engineering compromise, we had to choose an appropriate balance between: function / construction time / volume / weight / service life and aesthetics.  The screws only stick up .101? above the surface, and their .361 head diameter does a nice job of not pulling through the fiberglass, the same can?t be said of small countersunk screws in a thin glass panel.  After a year of use, and many remove and replace cycles, we haven?t had to do any repairs on the body panels, the holes are still in good shape.

At significantly subsonic speeds I think the screw heads pose a much larger perceived penalty than their actual impediment to aerodynamic efficiency deserves.

Having said all that, I agree that it would look better with flush head screws.  It was an early pragmatic decision that we didn?t change before we had it painted.  If our next liner is bigger and heavier the balance might tip toward a more aesthetically pleasing panel attachment strategy.

John put a photo of the new paint job on the website.  We will soon add more stickers and graphics; there is never enough time, we were rushed to get it ready for the show.

http://www.geocities.com/buddfab/buddfab3

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