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Author Topic: FIM Cycle-car Streamliner  (Read 10817 times)
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bak189
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« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2012, 10:34:21 AM »

Jason...at Hellcat Customs made a very interesting "cycle-car" ....3 wheels (2 on the front....) and it can be leaned into the turns like a solo bike.....great engineering...
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« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2012, 10:41:37 AM »

DW is correct....not safe and does not work....we tried it with a roadracing sidecar outfit......if I recall......it was also tried in a LSR car, without success....... I believe FIM does not allow for rear wheel steering................................................
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« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2012, 11:01:40 AM »

Having driven a forklift, rear wheel steering would be of no interest.  As long as two drive wheels in the rear are acceptable, front with steering or rear without, it gets interesting.  When Bob put his sidecar up as an option months ago, I was still living in pushrod land.  But, as a reluctant acknowledgement of horsepower and longevity, the "dark side" has the answers.  And, an engineer who I work with used to race Suzukis.  The plod (sic) thickens.



* Bakker1.jpg (156.86 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 196 times.)
« Last Edit: October 18, 2012, 11:08:42 AM by Moxnix » Logged

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Peter Jack
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« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2012, 11:22:21 AM »

Rear steering doesn't even work well in aircraft. That's why tricycle gear is much more popular. Ask a pilot of "conventional" geared aircraft about ground loops.  grin grin grin

Pete
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« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2012, 11:45:53 AM »

My PA 16 Clipper up on the Yukon, I called it the "ground loop special."
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« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2012, 12:43:00 PM »

Just in my mailbox from Germany - the October issue of Oldtimer Markt has an 8 page article about the SIMA-Violet Cycle cars! Now these are 4 wheelers.
Michael


* Violet Cycle car article_1sm.JPG (335.77 KB, 800x577 - viewed 226 times.)
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« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2012, 01:11:24 PM »

Great article.  Many of the early cycle cars in the US were also 4 wheels, light and inexpensive until mass production by Ford and such drove the cost of full size down.  The FIM rule requires 3 wheel tracks, R, L and center, for record attempt vehicles.  PM me your address and I'll mail a postcard of a fatal car crash in Granite Falls circa 1905, which I found in my garage this morning but will have to look for as I was packing things up to ship to Mukilteo.

People think of Morgan and the handful of imitators using M/C engines like Triking or Citroen based units.  For a record, this are too short or too slow. 
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« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2012, 01:56:04 PM »

There is a great Cycly Car thread over on the HAMB max
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« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2012, 09:08:24 PM »

Two wheels in the front with front wheel drive would be a lot harder to spin than the other way.  A spin would be a bad thing on a trike.  They are easy to flip upside down.
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« Reply #39 on: October 21, 2012, 08:28:06 AM »

It's gotta be like a liner or long lakester, fr or rr drive.  And low.  Low as possible.  The fwd is possible w/ a bit of thinking, and an M/C engine.  Still in the thinking and scribbling stage, but interesting options are coming into focus.
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« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2012, 09:47:43 AM »

The old rear bodywork from Brant Wright and Speranza WAS for sale a while back. Would be perfect for you.

http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,10796.0.html
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4-barrel Mike
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« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2012, 10:48:27 AM »

Why not make it long enough to add a second rear wheel?  That way you could run as a FIM 3-wheeler and as an SCTA 4-wheeler ("car") streamliner.

Mike
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MattGuzzetta
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« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2012, 02:28:43 AM »

FIM cycle car sounds like a great project!  We ran a 500cc car in 1970 that people thought was a 3 wheeler as the rear wheels were only 8inches apart.  The basic design might still work well as a 3 wheeler, maybe better as  you could close in the rear to an edge instead of the "Kamm" effect rear we used.  Handling was good with smooth salt and not so good on rough salt. sad  I made a basic mistake in not having suspension and you need to force the CG down as low as possible as well as having the front axle run a very stiff anti roll bar. I would also run some extra ballast under the front axle to bring the lenghwise CG as far forward as possible.  We ran 137 with a NA 500 Triumph flat track motor with about 48hp so the basic design works.
I will add some photos of the model and the car to give you some idea of the shape:

First the scale model which was slightly different from the completed car,


This is the car before paint showing the fiberglass body.


This is a direct side shot at Bonneville:


This shot shows the blunt rear which would not happen with only 1 rear wheel.


Hope this gets some thoughts going, sounds like a fun project.....and fast! grin

Matt Guzzetta
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« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2012, 09:59:18 AM »

More food for thought, thanks all.  I remember photos of Matt's car, it's a very efficient shape, no question.

Friday the  wife said she had a crew coming over to move things to storage from MY garage.  Saturday they showed, I wasn't through grabbing, packing and stuffing my various important things into cubby holes, cracks and the garden shed.  Good grief, I had my hands on that postcard last week and today it's prolly in the storage unit.  Sorry Schruiber, I'll have to have an expedition to the storage locker asap.  Now, how it is they left the lazy boy recliner, work bench and tools, and a double bed w/ matresses tells me I am going to find myself exiled to Siberia at some point.  Please Brer' Fox, don't throw me in the briar patch . . . 

There is room on the 20x20 floor space to loft a frame, and have a Wayno-style plywood rotisserie.   When I stopped in Salina, UT, to see Wayne's tanker, I like the roominess, the "old" look, and the head scratching started on how to make it a cycle car with one wheel steering up front, my "pub dart" concept in my already swimming coco.  A long back section added w/ all that's needed to hang an engine and (perhaps) belt drive couple of rear wheels on an enclosed rear axle.  It's early in the game, so thinking this way and that way is allowed.  A tank wouldn't look so good w/ a scabbed in forward section for engine and front drive.  But, front drive will, indeed, have me more confident regarding spin problems, especially in a turbo set up that brings power on in a whoop.

My drafting table was removed from the garage.  Okay, time to upgrade the office computer to something fancy with better  design capabilities, since the iMac is so old I'm getting notices it will no longer accept Firefox updates.  Plus, I need to be able to work remotely with an engineer across the river on diesel engines, so spending money on new tech is always one of the secrets to happiness. 

For now, I'll gnaw on Matt's photos, thank you kindly for posting, it takes me back to the stretched BD 5D shape.  Tman, the HAMB section on cycle cars is full of good stuff.

Thanks all.  Time to wring hands and gnash teeth, and do a little work in the real world on the side.
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« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2012, 10:12:11 AM »

Matt, thanks for the photos of your "3-wheeler"  we are running the ShopGirls car in a layout like that for the Shell Eco-Marathon; car is about 9 feet long.  Any chance you have aphoto of the blue and white streamliner in this photo?

Herr Moxnix - sending you the scanned article about the old cycle cars this morning via pm


Thanks,
Michael


* Bonne-Project-500-011.jpg (25.87 KB, 640x240 - viewed 153 times.)
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