Summer Bros. "Pollywog" streamliner:

[Rex Schimmer]

Looking at a 1962 Hot Rod Yearbook there are a couple of pictures of the Summers Brothers single engine, front wheel drive car, and as I remember it was called the "Pollywog" car because of its wide front to narrow rear shape. It was front wheel drive and the rear wheels were in tantum so it was very narrow in the back. In 62 they went 309 with this car and to tell you the truth I would bet a car with that shape would be real fast today!

Anybody know what happen to it. Neat piece!

Rex

[Glen]

Rex, it's owned and being restored in Santa Barbara by Tim Rochlitzer

[John Burk]

In 1960 and maybe earlier Bob Culbert ran a front wheel drive roadster at Bonneville . Bill and Bob Summers built their streamliner with an identical driveline and were the first to use inline wheels . Culbert's and the Summers' front drive used Jeep hubs and wheels assuming what worked with 4 wheel drive would work with front wheel drive . The polywog was very fast but it handled poorly . Bill says every run scared the hell out of Bob . Later people realized that negative offset wheels solve the handling problem .

[dwarner]

Jim Culbert

[JohnR]

...Later people realized that negative offset wheels solve the handling problem .

Can you explain in more detail?

Thanks,

john

[John Burk]

With factory wheels the Dana 4 wheel drive front axles that most front wheel drive LSR cars use the contact patch is about 3" outside the steering axis . It doesn't bother 4WD Jeeps and pickups but for front wheel drive on uneven salt with the throttle down any difference between right and left traction makes the car dart from side to side . With negative offset wheels the contact patch is inline with the steering axis and the car goes straigh regardless of traction .

[aircap]

and as I remember it was called the "Pollywog" car because of its wide front to narrow rear shape.
Rex

Can't remember where I heard or read it, Rex - but supoosedly the "Polliwog" nickname came from the way that the tail of the car wobbled back and forth up to about 150 MPH or so.
From above the air it would have reminded someone of a tadpole swimming.

[Howard]

That's called the "scrub radius" I believe. A line drawn thru the upper and lower ball joints should touch the ground in the center of the tire contact patch. It also helps the handling of any car, front, rear, or all wheel drive.
It is often overlooked.
Howard

[NArias3]

How many more degrees of caster do you land speed front-wheel drivers run compared to a street driven vehicle? I'm curious what's the difference between a fast accelerating, straight line vehicle compared to a daily driver which turns left and right.

How much more/less toe-in? Camber?

Nick 3rd.

[Sumner]

That's called the "scrub radius" I believe. A line drawn thru the upper and lower ball joints should touch the ground in the center of the tire contact patch. It also helps the handling of any car, front, rear, or all wheel drive.
It is often overlooked.
Howard

Also with a solid front axle project down thru the king pin to the tire patch.  I did some machine work on my spindles to get it within about 1 1/2 inches and Harv was more intensive with the machine work on his lakester and I think he is closer than I am.  I hope I'm ok.

Howard I've missed seeing you on the salt the last few years.  You have been an inspiration to me with the design and build of your streamliner .

Thanks,

Sum

[Rex Schimmer]

John Burk, maybe that is why John Romero's Honda was all over the salt last summer. He sure could not keep it straight.

I would think on a front wheel drive car that you would want the steering link and the arms going between the wheels to be very stiff. If you had a positive scrubb radius if the steering deflected you would have toe out and that certainly makes the ride exciting!

As I said in one of my last post this old buddie of mine sent me some old HOT RODs and some old HOT ROD YEARBOOKS, well in the 63 year book there is a pretty good article, by Don Francisco, on some Bonneville cars, one of them is the Summers brothers car. It shows a great picture of the front suspension, and it looks like it doesn't have much caster and it looks like it does have about 2-3 inches of positive scrub, you can just about measure it from the picture.

Francisco also includes the Red Head and the Bennett, Rochlitzer and Joehnk lakester, which must have been bought by Seth Hammond as it sure looks like his old lakester. Also Bob Herda's streamliner is in the article, man what a beautiful car! Didn't it eventually crash??

Neat stuff.

Rex

[John Burk]

"How many more degrees of caster do you land speed front-wheel drivers run compared to a street driven vehicle?"

Nick
  That's a debatable point . Technicaly under power it would be more stable with negative caster . Danny Boy has 10 deg positive and Ken Walkey has 28 deg. positive . My unfinished front wheel drive streamliner has 19 deg. positive . Aparently when the contact patch is inline with the steering axis it works like an unpowered front end .

[PorkPie]

Also Bob Herda's streamliner is in the article, man what a beautiful car! Didn't it eventually crash??


Bob Herda's final streamliner, the famous 999, killed has poor driver/
owner when the car went on fire during his fatal run. Before Bob set some fantastic FIA records.

Unfortunately, Bob didn't took care for the safety, when he build a complete closed body shell without holes in the rear where the smoke would have go out of the car, to keep the car aerodynamic perfect...

The car was kept for a long time as a wreck on a save place, before Dennis Varni from San Jose restored him to his original beauty.