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Author Topic: What class would a 1965 Chevy panel truck run in?  (Read 7406 times)
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Monolith
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« on: July 19, 2012, 08:09:46 PM »

Hi, all,
I have a couple of old 60's GM trucks and I'm trying to decide which would be better to turn into a race truck. I'd be running E/PP if I could, and was wondering if the panel would fall into this category.
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Stan Back
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2012, 09:51:17 PM »

Great question!  We've got a guy in our club that runs a Austin Panel (I don't consider it a Sedan Delivery) in Gas Altered.

Anyone?
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PatMc
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2012, 12:01:46 AM »

Opinion:  I'm just a truck racer, and member of the SCTA, NOT an inspector or official -

Your first step is to get a rulebook from SCTA-BNI.ORG and read it page for page, ESPECIALLY the front.

There is a lot of safety equipment to buy.  I spent about $20k on safety equipment for a pickup.  You could do it for far less, but it's still not going to be a cheap date or simple.

If you are good with the universal safety equipment rules, then here's what the book says:

Production Pickup allows a shell so I THINK you could do it.  5.E.4 /PP "Aftermarket bed caps are allowed but should not offer an aerodynamic advantage".

You have two possible paths:

1)  Contact someone from http://scta-bni.org/contact.html , I think it's Mike Manghelli, and get a decision if it qualifies as PP.  Send pictures.  You should keep any correspondence and pictures in your logbook (you need a SCTA logbook for your truck at all times).

2)  Just show up with PP on the window, and register it as PP.  You might get protested, but if it looks like a truck, I doubt it.

Now, be aware, a normal Sedan Delivery is NOT a truck I've been told.  If it was based on a car chassis, it's a car.  El Caminos are cars, my old '57 Ford Sedan Delivery is a car.  The only exception is VW Rabbit trucks as far as I know.  From what I remember a 65 Chevy Panel is a pickup with a van bed incorporated.  It has the truck frame and nose.  A 57 Ford SD is a 57 sedan with van bed on it.

Note, your safety rules are based on the existing record or minimum.  128mph for Bville and 118 for Elmo. 



« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 12:23:16 AM by PatMc » Logged
Monolith
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2012, 01:22:10 AM »

Thanks for the replies!
I have the rulebooks for the last 2 years as well as the current one. I refer to them pretty regularly in an effort to understand what it's going to take to prep a race vehicle and to avoid asking common or obvious questions. The bed cap reference is EXACTLY what got me thinking about the panel. And it's certainly a truck-truck chassis, drivetrain-most parts interchange with pickups of the same series. It's not a sedan delivery. Hopefully the folks in charge will agree. I'll follow your advice and write an email submitting documentation. I'll post what I find out here.
Thanks again!
Baz

« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 01:27:50 AM by Monolith » Logged
PatMc
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2012, 01:55:48 AM »

Have you joined a club yet? 


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Monolith
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2012, 02:59:32 AM »

I haven't. I've been trying to get to a Roadrunners meeting but work schedule has prevented it.
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PatMc
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2012, 04:18:39 AM »

I haven't. I've been trying to get to a Roadrunners meeting but work schedule has prevented it.

I'm a Roadrunner too and run into the same issue.  My days are sometimes longer than I want them to be, and I don't get to pick which days are too long.

You need to join a club ASAP if you want to run Elmo this year.  The course workers are club members, everybody works who wants to race.  With the RR's, it's once a year.  I do patrol later this year, and I'll probably do a "course walk" or two I hope. 

I'm probably not the best guy to give advice (I can tell you how to screw up), but I probably can help some.

Jerry from the RR's sends out minutes of each meeting via email so that helps.

Bonneville is next month, so our next meeting is at a restarant.  I forget which one, so I'll post it in this thread tomorrow.  The Sept meeting is at Ed Martin's garage the second Tuesday of the month.

If you haven't attended an event yet, you should do that.  Sept 16 is the next.  Tech and setup is Saturday, racing is first thing Sunday morning.  One of us will give you the grand tour if you ask.  Bring a bicycle or a dirtbike if you can.  There is a food truck on Sunday, bring water, a hat, a chair and sunscreen.  You can pit with us, we are about a 1/4 down the track from the start line next to the return road, there is a Roadrunner flag there.





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dw230
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2012, 11:40:12 AM »

A pickup truck is just that - a pick up truck. A van, panel truck, SUV, station wagon, etc. is a Production Coupe, a Gas Coupe, an Altered, whatever, depending on the configeration. A 'bed cover' is what covers the bed of a pick up truck. It is not a cargo box behind the cab.

DW
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PatMc
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2012, 12:42:41 PM »

A pickup truck is just that - a pick up truck. A van, panel truck, SUV, station wagon, etc. is a Production Coupe, a Gas Coupe, an Altered, whatever, depending on the configeration. A 'bed cover' is what covers the bed of a pick up truck. It is not a cargo box behind the cab.

DW

You are probably right, but ...

How do you define a pickup?  And a Bed Cap?

A van is seldom a pickup.  I've owned several of them, mostly Fords, but a couple of GM's as well.  They share nothing with the pickup but the engine and sometimes the rear axle.  Nothing else.

Isn't it up to the racers in PP to decide?  That's what happened with Hudson DT entry.  It wasn't even close to legal for DT, yet since nobody protested, they ran it, and everyone enjoyed watching it run.  Heck there was a tilt-body "pickup" with a boat engine in it that was called a pickup.

Tech is for safety, it's the driver's responsibility to enter the right class as he interpretes the rules.  If some disagrees, they whip out a checkbook, and have the SCTA officials decide.

Not trying to bust your balz Dan, but classes appear to try put similar vehicle in groups.  That truck is more truck than coupe.  It's NOT a car.   It has the aero of a brick, worse than a pickup, and you think it should run with the Civics?   I'm thinking the reason they outlaw cars that are made into pickups is because of an unfair aero advantage.  That isn't the case here.  I know if I was running a truck, I would not protest it.

Just my opinion, which is worth what you pay for it.
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PatMc
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2012, 12:47:25 PM »

PS - Recently I towed a 8,000 lb trailer with my "pickup" with 8 tires in the bed.  Try that with a Rabbit.   evil

If you're going to define a Pickup Truck by what a Pickup Truck really is, then few qualify.  A Pickup Truck can haul big loads and tow trailers.  If you are going to define them by aerodynamics, there is no difference between a fiberglass bedcap and a factory steel one.
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salt27
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2012, 01:24:00 PM »

I thought the term "bed cap" in the rule book was refering to a tounneau cover.

  Don
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 01:26:04 PM by salt27 » Logged
PatMc
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2012, 02:00:02 PM »

I thought the term "bed cap" in the rule book was refering to a tounneau cover.

  Don

It already says panels or tonneau covers earlier in the paragraph.  Then it goes on to say Bed Cap, and does not specify a height, it just says, No Aero Advantage.  I can prove a cap is no aero advantage over a tonneau cover.  I run both.  Tonneau is much better.

In any case, if someone thinks it's unfair, they can protest.  It's a very visible feature, so no tear-down.
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PatMc
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2012, 03:28:10 PM »

If you have to run in the E/PRO class, your safety equipment must be for 180mph, and you cannot set a record below 180mph.  Several rules change when you go past 160 and 175 IIRC, and you will have to comply with them. 

If you are able, drop the engine to 3.0L and go for F/PRO.  This is 156mph safety rules, which are much cheaper.  The engine has to be of a type that would have come in that pickup of that year, but IIRC, you can "kill cylinders", ie - pull 2 pistons at opposite sides of the firing order.  Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Do it for fun, or buy a junk car that is much smaller to run PRO.  Frontal area is a beach.

And that's the main thing, having fun.  We are not curing cancer.  We are taking our hotrods out to the safest place imaginable, a big dry lake bed, and mashing the go pedal.  I would do that before I even knew the SCTA was doing the same thing.  Just crack the whip and watch the scenery fly by.

When it stops being fun, is when it's time to find something that is.
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PatMc
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« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2012, 07:07:15 PM »

I haven't. I've been trying to get to a Roadrunners meeting but work schedule has prevented it.

Here's the scoop:

"In lieu of our regular meeting, which falls during Speedweek, we will be having a dinner get together at Olivia's Mexican Restaurant in Riverside and NOT AT our usual meeting location, the Ed Martin Garage. This is a "no host" affair. Most dinner entrees run around $11 to $16 and a la carte items are less. Olivia's website link and menu: http://www.oliviasmexicanrestaurant.com/
Dinner is at 7pm, Tuesday, August 14th at Olivia's Mexican Restaurant, 9447 Magnolia Ave, Riverside, CA. Please RSVP by August 13, to Jack Masson if you and/or guests plan to attend. Jack's phone is 951-737-9449 and e-mail is: j.masson@ca.rr.com


We will be back at the Ed Martin Garage for our regular Club meeting on September 11 at 7pm."


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Monolith
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« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2012, 07:28:07 PM »

Here's the answer to my question in the thread title:
Basil,

A panel truck would run in the coupe and sedan class.   The vehicle is
required to have a bed for the pickup class.

Mike Manghelli
SCTA Rules Coordinator
----------------------------------
Good thing I have a 1964 GMC 1000 as a backup. Wink
Thanks for the info Pat. And for making me feel welcome.
I've been to El Mirage a few times to watch. I wont be able to get a truck prepped for this season-maybe next if time and money are kind to me. I'm also going to try to get to the salt for at least a day this year if I can swing it. And I'll try like hell to make the next couple of Roadrunner meetings.
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