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Author Topic: Two Vincents visit Germany  (Read 37784 times)
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Moxnix
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« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2012, 08:54:31 AM »

Toller Kerl.
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« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2012, 11:31:37 AM »

Wow I have no words. Machinist porn! Ok I had 2 words.
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« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2012, 02:43:12 PM »

I truly look forward to inspecting the liner this August,
and please tell Harmut I enjoy seeing, and admiring his work.
A very skillfull and well planning engineer and machinist.

Drew Gatewood
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« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2012, 03:24:07 PM »

Harmut...good on 'ya.

Max deserves the very best and You were what he received.

Thanks so much.

FREUD
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Stainless1
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« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2012, 09:49:24 PM »

14 Feb from Hartmut
I realized that you have different piston pins - those from the JE's are lighter than the Arias pins. I also saw that the bush in cyl #2 is worn out and needs renewing.But what I was talking about was the piston pin on #1 - it was sloppy on the timing side of the piston, caused probably by lack of lube due to the flinger holes in the crank being closed by swarf from #2. Anyway - I can handle all this. If all goes wrong I can sell another motorcycle.
The coating on the pistons is applied in layers of 1 thou". Mr Baier says he has done pistons with up to 8 thou" coating thickness - that's 16" in diameter - the original shape of the piston stays the same. These pistons worked just as good. If he is in doubt he will replace the liner(s). I don't want to do all this work without having the best affordable solution and I want to avoid all possible problems. As this is the last attempt we have 5 days to prove what this bike can do - and I don't want to fly the spanners half of the time to keep it running - so I better burn some midnight oil and a bit more money to get it all together without any shortcuts.
Don't worry about the seals and bearings: once I am finished with the engines I will order it all again and ship it with the engines - I can get bearings and seals at reasonable prices here as well. Thus you get the exact replacement - I need to modify the roller bearings for the crank outrigger anyway as they are now C4 clearance.
I am starting on the clutch shaft this evening or tomorrow - will leave it longer on the primary side to have all options. Have to study the bearing catalogues that I have to see what the most robust bearing for this application is.
Will make some more mountains of swarf on my old trusty Matra lathe as I want to have the sprockets for the other side (chain to gearbox) premachined and ready for broaching at Bernhards shop this week. When they are broached internally I can finish them on a tight fitting pin on the lathe for maximum concentricity - then I will hand them over to Mike for CNCing the tooth form for the chain.
 
15 Feb
I have finished a couple sprockets for Mike to put teeth on wink  So tomorrow evening we will do a little CNC machining.I told Mike already that I need a bit more CNC when I make the new clutch plates - typical answer: "just bring it here and I do it - no big deal". That's what I call a true friend! Another stout supporter is my sidecar passenger Thomas. He phoned this afternoon to ask what material I might need. So the material for the clutch plates will come from his factory. He has given me material before for some parts for the liner. And he never asked for payment - good buddy! So Friday evening when Thomas arrives I get the material for the new clutch plates. Hope to have the clutch shaft ready then as we have milled splines into shafts before here - nice job on a Friday evening, finished off with a round of beers. Usually Thomas visits me on Friday nights to work a bit on our old two stroke race bikes - the last few weeks we only worked on streamliner stuff.
I have shrunk in an aluminium disc for the new seal. I hope you see it in the picture that the chain now rides outboard of the seal - there is just enough space. When it all is finished the chain will have about 2mm space inside the case.
Terry Prince says he has got the halftime pinions that I need and wants to ship them over. I hope to have all the clutch and primary stuff finished when his parcel arrives so I can work on the other side of the motors.
In the next few days I will visit Bernhard and get the other sprockets broached on his 25 ton press and see hopefully some progress on the gearbox design. But first I have to empty all my boxes full of swarf here - can't walk anymore near the lathe.


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« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 11:36:56 PM by Stainless1 » Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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« Reply #35 on: March 12, 2012, 10:04:55 PM »

16 Feb from Hartmut
 Just back from Mike and his CNC mills. Both sprockets for the clutch chain are done. The chain is sitting tight and we left the teeth as strong as possible. On the other pic you see the big cover - I decided to weld the ring for the seal in as I don't trust fully into the shrink-fit as I don't know what material you used compared to my aluminium. Anyway - I got a bit warpage due to my outer weld but was able to bring it all back as I had to do some welding on the inside. After a lot of heating I welded in a new boss for the chain tensioner and connected the two pieces that make up the big cover by another weld - this brought it back in shape. This morning I spend a while on the lathe and turned the chain tensioner - now the chain will ride on the rollers so no wear of the tensioner or chain. I chose the radius of tensioner to allow the chain rollers to come into contact with that rib slowly so less stress. Will work on it tomorrow but in the picture you see that it is a perfect fit to make the chain go round the sprockets. The anchor bolt for the tensioner will be located on the crankcase and go through the hole in the boss - thus the cover is pulled onto the cases with this bolt as well. Of course the tensioner will rest on a spacer bush to allow free movement when bolt is tightened. This allows us to fit the chain over the tensioner and preset the chain before the cover is put on. I like it.
As we have carnival going on here this week and half the next week I cannot order material or anything else as most shops are closed - stupids!
Anyway Thomas is bringing material tomorrow for the clutch so I can work on the shaft and start the clutch stuff before I need to order more material.


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« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 11:35:21 PM by Stainless1 » Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #36 on: March 12, 2012, 10:33:37 PM »

"If all goes wrong I can sell another motorcycle"! I like this guy, spoken like a true gearhead! cheers
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Stainless1
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« Reply #37 on: March 12, 2012, 10:42:58 PM »

Trent, I guess you are reading it  grin Yep Hartmut is a real gearhead... like Freud said, a righteous dude

17 Feb from Hartmut
Spent half the day in making a big angle iron to get the rotary table vertical for milling the slots into the clutch shaft. While milling on the angle piece I had the lathe turn down the shaft to about the size of the bearings. Thomas came this evening and brought another heavy lump of steel for the clutch plates. While I set up the mill for making the slots he produced a couple small parts on the other lathe. Finally we started to cut the slots after everything was dialed in to less than 1 thou". On the first round I was barely able to get the clutch plate on but another round taking off another 3 thou made sure that the plates slide in and out on the splines. Then I converted the mill to use an end mill for cutting the slots down to the bigger diameter. Finally all was finished and we stopped working at 10pm and will now go for a round of beers!!!
 
CHEEEEEEEERS!

(more pictures in next post)


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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« Reply #38 on: March 12, 2012, 10:57:25 PM »

More clutch shaft pics
 and more to come in the next post


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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« Reply #39 on: March 12, 2012, 11:05:09 PM »

a few more clutch shaft fotos

Looks like Max is right, Hartmut is making this thing bulletproof


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2012, 12:03:07 AM »

From Hartmut, 18 Feb
Here is the latest news: clutch shaft is finished and installed. I left the splines longer and the outer diameter thicker to see where I end up when the whole clutch is installed. While working on the shaft and tensioner I had the big lump of metal on the saw - took ages to cut it in half....
The tensioner is shaped and almost ready to install. My long time buddy Werner Baer ( he sponsored you as well and lives in USA/Boston) came in as he is here in Switzerland and Germany for business. He is on the mailing list and knows of what I do but used the chance to visit us and see the motors. While he was here I used him to show you the t-shirts that my other buddy Andy had ordered and payed for - they arrived yesterday.



OK guys, these T's are available to Black Lightning contributors... a $50 contribution to the project will get you a shirt.  Maybe we can get Hartmut to post a paypal address if he has one, he can collect the names of the folks here in the states and send them all at one time to me.  I will then send them out or bring them to Bonneville, which ever you prefer.   


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2012, 12:24:35 AM »

21 Feb from Hartmut
The inner clutch plate is ready for CNCing. I leave the outer clutch plate as is - its strong enough. Will only check geometrically and lighten it slightly. As there is space enough on the splines I could fit another friction disc and steel plate - let me know if you want this and if so send me a friction plate and a steel plate - better two steel plates as one of those that I have here is slimmed down a bit.
The chain tensioner is shaped enough to go into the case without disturbing anything. Had it closed today and was able to turn the rear crank by hand with the chain turning freely - the only rubbing is happening on the tensioner but now that the chain runs on the rib with its rollers it should be smoother than before as there is less shock from one roller to the next. The links were bumping much more into the old tensioner.
Maybe tomorrow I can take the engines apart and do some welding for the tensioner screws and finish it all on the mill. Then its time to finish the outer cover and the left side is done.


Max's reply
I should make you aware of a little background on the clutch plates.  When we blew the HYVO chain, and I changed everything over to the monster chain, I had to increase the thickness of the tail piece of the big cover by 1/8".  You can see where I screwed the 1/8" plate onto the tail plate of the big cover.  I built the first jackshaft, locating the clutch splines on the shaft to accommodate a three friction plate clutch.  I felt when the HYVO chain broke, it would be a good idea to make a four friction plate clutch.  The stacked height of four friction plates and five steel plates was about 5/8" too much.  The 5/8" included the 1/8" I lost on the inner cover.  To get the five steel plates and the four friction plates on the clutch shaft, I had to machine the friction plates, reducing their thickness by .050 each.  Taking material from each side of the plate by .025.  The inner broached spline was also reduced in it's root thickness to prevent tube locking, as I also reduced the thickness of the five steel plates by .025.  They were quite warped, and my buddy ground the plates on a huge grinder with a magnetic table.  So that reduction in total clutch pack thickness was reduced by .325.  

In lieu of all of this, the spline length that you have should not be reduced in length.  The outer plate should be made adjustable.  When the outer plate bearing comes within 1/32" of tube locking on the spline end.  This would be the length of the standoff tubes without any shims.  Next would be to determine the length of the clutch studs.  A friction plate should be placed on the shaft, the short side of the friction plate broached spline is outboard.  Then add the thickness of a steel plate, plus .050, that would be .025 for the removed .025 on the friction plate, and .025 for the reduced thickness of the steel plate.  Then with the outer clutch plate assembled, slide the clutch plate on the outer clutch studs and inner clutch bearing.  When the pressure plate float plate comes in contact with the steel plate, back off the predetermined .050.  Make up various shims.  Those are the ones that go between the outer clutch plate and the stand pipe tubes.  Enough shims should be made to provide full stroke adjustment of the outer plate.  Studs should be long enough to accept adequate clutch stud nuts.  It appears the shaft is plenty long enough to thread, make a nut, and revamp the Torrington bearing design to something more robust.  

With the clutch plates I have here, many new friction and many new steels, and with the worn clutch plates and turn down clutch plates, there will be no problem coming up with a four plate clutch pack, and maybe even five, as you suggest.  I don't think we'll have any problem doing it that way.  The clutch plates that I have here probably weigh 100 lbs.  So it's my vote that we don't send any clutch plates your way, and just save the money.  It would be easy enough for me to stack and adjust the clutch here with the starting clearance of .040 total between plates.  

You mentioned that the seals would be good up to 6500 rpm.  The clutch turns about 4000 rpm, so we're in good shape there.  

Again Hartmut, you're doing some pretty fine work over there.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time, effort, and expertise you're putting in to the gear train.  Looks super strong and bullet proof to me.  



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« Last Edit: March 13, 2012, 12:26:16 AM by Stainless1 » Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2012, 05:40:47 AM »

Beautiful work Hartmut, I wish you and Max succss.

Jon
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« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2012, 02:06:16 PM »

good to see this bike being worked on with such great enthusiasm again-everyone i know wants it to WIN

enjoying the machine tool shots,and the parts pictures-

will be sending my contribution over with ernie from the vincent club.
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« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2012, 06:00:01 PM »

what a great job. so much work going on.
good job , hartmut. good luck in '12.

bf
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bub '07 - 140.293 a/pg   120" crate street mill  
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