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Author Topic: Two Vincents visit Germany  (Read 37954 times)
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Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2012, 11:36:28 PM »

Here is your new gear drive and the steady plate. Fits nicely into the cover. The three gears in the big plate have minimum backlash, the crank gears "just" slide in. Will stone them both tomorrow with a little fixture that I made today. The cranks turn easy enough but I could not detect any backlash on the crank gears - but I want a small bit. So the gears go on my fixture tomorrow for an hour or two to remove 1 thou. Then it doesn't matter if the engines expand later than the gears after start-up.

Max calls these pictures "gear drive porn"


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2012, 11:43:15 PM »

3 Feb from Hartmut
Finished the gear grinding late afternoon (see pic) - now they spin all free and true with a minimum of backlash - I am just able to push or pull the gears between the cranks - no matter where the cranks are TDC / BDC or anywhere in between. I wanted it as close as possible because we are only running one ignition on one motor for both engines - too much backlash will give a different firing point on the motor without ignition. Anyway - I am happy so far. The outboard plate fits nicely over the pins - everything is straight. I shrunk in the big roller bearings with 2 thou. Tomorrow I can make the spacers for the front and rear crank and machine the outer cover to fit it over the whole thing. The free length of rear crank between roller bearing and blower pulley is about 1 and 1/8th ". Have to get another roller bearing of the same size that I can attach to the cover for extra safety of the blower drive.
 


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2012, 11:44:34 PM »

more pics and added info
the two front gears are on my grinding jig - it takes hours to grind away 1 thou - very hard surface.I spun the front crank for a while and found the driven gear after the front crank wants to come out of the housing - fair enough as the front crankcase is still not perfect parallel in all planes - I couldn't make it any better. So now those two gears are ground at a slight angle to compensate this. The two rears were on the jig for about 2 hours and now have around 1 thou play.
I don't think we need another outboard bearing for the front crank. The gear is right between the existing bearings so there is only outside load on that crank while starting. I thought about fitting another roller bearing of the same size as those in the outboard plate onto the rear crank - just behind the blower pulley. at the moment I don't see the need to widen the cover - the outboard plate fits inside, so you would not need to work on the starting yoke.


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« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 11:50:09 PM by Stainless1 » Logged

Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2012, 11:53:43 PM »

4 Feb
 Fitted the rear excentric spacer. No problem to find the sweet spot. Will mark where the slot in crank is and fit a dowel. Rear crank was tightened up and still turns free, this with all gears, bearings - everything. Seems the worse end is done as front crank is only 4 thou - will make another spacer for the front crank


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2012, 11:59:42 PM »

6 Feb
Today I had to run around to get some suitable material, buy some stuff to eat, let my helping friends know that you want to put their stickers on the liner, bring my tax documents to my taxman and finally get back to work. I made the front spacer 0,04mm eccentric as the front crank was out of round by 0,08mm. That crank was running true on the bearings as well so probably the same cause as on the back end. As the roller bearings were shrunk in so tightly I didn't have any clearance on the rollers so I had to grind both inner tracks down 1,5 thou. Front spacers slides in just as nice as the rear, finding the correct position is as follows. Nip the crank nut up until all play is gone from the timken bearings. Grip the spacer with a big wrench and turn around each direction until it starts to bind, mark each position, middle between is the correct spot and maximum even play all around the bearing. Will put the pin in the front spacer as well. By coincidence I had the rear spacer length totally correct without measuring - the blower pulley sits right where it used to be. The front spacer is still 1/8" too long. So I guess I can start on putting the big cover back on and drill and tap all those holes. All the gear drive is just fitting the two covers with 1mm to spare so no work on the starter yoke needed. It will stay where it was before.
This morning I talked to Mr Baier - the piston coating guru. He is a one man operation as me and very friendly - he has worked for BMW F1 to get them engines reliable, has done 30 years of engine tuning and preparation for speedway bikes and is still coating pistons for Porsche´┐Żs works racer engines amongst almost all Moto GP pistons of the current race teams. After telling him what we do and what I want him to do with the pistons he said he will make me a special price if I put one of his stickers on the bike - I agreed. So I will send all 4 cylinders and a set of the best pistons that we have to his place and let him work his magic.
 


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2012, 12:05:12 AM »

8 Feb from Hartmut
Having checked all pistons and finding that the pin on #1 is sloppy and the skirt worn away 2thou I decided to use both new pistons in the front engine. I copied your design of oil groves and bores, brought the crowns to the correct measurement and matched both pistons weights. So finally tomorrow the big parcel containing pistons and cylinders gets shipped to Mr Baier. The cylinders get a fine hone and the pistons get coated.l Should be back in a week or 10 days. Until then I will refit both covers on the primary side and do some more welding, and thread repairs on the cases.


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2012, 12:10:41 AM »

Yesterday I got a call that my ordered toolsteel is ready. The guy runs a toolmaking factory and is one of my buddies at the racetrack. I invited him to see the engines and talk a bit about what we want to do. So he drove to my place and delivered the material. Its call the same case hardable steel which I will make all the monsterchain sprockets and the clutchshaft of. Anyhow - I ordered the material knowing that he works most of the time with it and will get a much better price than me. After showing him pics of the liner etc he said the material is free - so here we have another sponsor - good buddy!!!
This morning I brought it all to one of the local hardening shop. I was lucky - the junior boss was there as well. I took a pic of the liner with me and told my story - he couldn't believe it and said he will come and take a look at the engines. He promised me a special price. The material goes into the oven for many hours at 800 degr C for stress relieving. Then I can machine all the parts and take it back there for case hardening. Due to the stresses absent in the material it will not change its shape when it is hardened - so no precision lost and everything should run true when mounted and have maximum load capacity. We have still minus 20 degr C at night and about 12 over the day - everything is moving slower - all my ordered parts take a couple days longer to get here. I myself need an hour longer ion the morning to get up to my usual working speed. Can't wait to get rid of the lousy frost outside.


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
Stainless1
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Robert W. P. "Stainless" Steele Wichita, Kansas



« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2012, 12:21:21 AM »

13 Feb 12 from Hartmut
here is good and not so good news: the cylinders and pistons arrived at Mr Baier safely - here is what he says:
 
two cylinders are okay - no problem fine honing them and coating the pistons. The other two are very problematic because they have valleys in the bore - up to 12 thou! He will hone the bores up to a point where the valleys are almost gone. As the coating cannot be applied in endless thickness he will phone me as soon as he knows more. He thinks he might get away with one of those barrels but the other one might need another liner.  So I sent him the one extra liner - now keep fingers crossed that the barrel needing the liner is not the one that has an oversize muff. If that is the case he will send me the muff and a suitable liner that I will machine and fit then. How much oversize do you want the liner in the muff?
Mr Baier says the valleys were produced by too much piston play under lousy running conditions - too hot, not enough lube etc...
Anyway - I'll find a solution. That was the bad news - here is some good news:
 
I machined the front and rear sprocket for the clutch primary chain and drilled and threaded all holes for the big primary cover. I have ordered the sealing rings for inner and outer clutch seal. Tomorrow I will turn the clutch shaft and make a new chain tensioner. Now the outer clutch seal is smaller and can thus withstand more revs. It is still on the fast side but should hold much longer than the big seal that was in there before. Usually these seals can run up to 12mtrs/sec - we still have 26 mtrs at 6500! The smaller seal makes a concentric spacer necessary in the clutch cover but this is no big deal - I will turn it on the lathe and shrink it in. Then we are a couple millimetres away from the chain and don't risk anymore that the seal will be damaged and we don't need to modify the seal for fitment. The inner seal is sitting in the sprocket as well. I always wanted to make the inner clutch plate (the one with the bolts) from steel - thus it is stronger and it will sit on top of the small seal - so no movement possible. When clutch is removed from bike both seals stay in place and are not disturbed.


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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2012, 02:45:10 AM »

That is just a dream come true for Max and everyone who wants him to go fast, amazing, great work, wow!
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« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2012, 10:36:20 AM »

The incredible part of this is that Hartmut is also running his business in his spare time as well as pouring a bunch of his own money in the engine rebuild project.  Luckily a lot of folks all over the world are pitching in on this project as well.  Hartmut sold his 38 Norton recently to support his speed habit... piloting the Black Lightning.
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Stainless
Red Hat 228.039, 2001, 65ci, MSA Bockscar Lakester with a little N20 
MSA Bockscar Lakester #1000 my fastest mile 245 and change, 84 ci turbobusa motor... but Corey's 233 MPH H/BFL record is still 3MPH faster than mine.
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« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2012, 11:53:11 AM »

Harmut is one righteous dude.

Sold his '38 Norton........

FREUD
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« Reply #26 on: March 10, 2012, 04:40:50 PM »

This is a whole lot more than most would tackle........certainly many times more involved than my simple Triumph Cub!  I watched them run a few times and could feel the pain when it did not GO.
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« Reply #27 on: March 10, 2012, 10:03:35 PM »

Stainless and Max,

Hartmut was a God-sent. I would have hated to see Max's liner sidelined. Now because of Hartmut the liner has new energy. Go out and up the records. Best of luck to all of you.

Tom G.
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« Reply #28 on: March 11, 2012, 04:51:50 PM »

I will echo the sentiments above and add that this is better than reading an Anthony Bourdain novel!
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« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2012, 07:27:16 AM »

Thanks to all of you for the nice words. I am just helping my american buddy to fulfill his dream - make a double-engined Vincent go real fast! It came as a big surprise to me when he offered my a ride in that liner in 2004 without knowing me personally!!!! - we only had e-mail contact before. Over all those years he became a close friend to me and when I realized he will not be healthy and strong enough to rebuild the motors another time I knew I had to offer my help, give him something back for the ride(s) of my life. Gladly Max accepted and sent the motors over here. As I knew before that 2012 will be our final attempt under Max`s banner I am going through every part and check it - anything that might give trouble is replaced by something that I hope will be stronger or better suited. As Stainless will show you in the next few posts I have almost finished the left (drive) side of the engines - in fact I liked the 100s of hours spent on my mills and lathes as usually I restore and repair british bikes of the past, mainly Nortons and Vincents so the toolmachines are only used occasionally when some silly UK-made part doesn┤t fit. Being a trained toolmaker with Master/engineer degree this work on the motors reminds me of my youth when I used to make tools etc before I opened my own bike shop 16 years ago. I really enjoy it. Have probably infected many of my racing friends as I get some materials for free, get CNC operated machinery for free etc etc - all good buddies that want to see us succeed.

Cheers  Hartmut
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