Containment seat?

[OldStude]

I've read on this forum that in CGC you need either a funny car cage or containment seat.  I've got a 2011 SCTA rules book and it doesn't specifically mention that.  I've built cars by rule books to race all over the world and studied the book and built the car to the letter of the law and never had a problem at tech.  I assume if I build the cage to the letter of the rules book and install the aluminum seat per the rules book that I'll have no trouble at tech?  Tech isn't a subjective evaluation, is it?

[maguromic]

  Tech isn't a subjective evaluation, is it?

Not anymore, see new rule 1.A Technical Inspection.  Tony

[Rick Byrnes]

I agree, there is now a statement that makes inspection totally objective, and that is a good thing.

But, you may not want to build strictly by the book, in that the requirements are minimum requirements for the class.
For your continued safety as you go faster and faster, building considerably more stout than required is a great idea.  Particularly in the cage area, where diameter of tubing called for can be increased for a huge increase in strength.  Don't hesitate to use 1 3/4" tube and build as stout as you can. 

You don't mention where you are and if you plan on running on the salt or exclusively concrete events, but a slightly different approach might be in order depending on how fast you are capable of going.
Don't hesitate to over build.  Study the cars that are going well over 200 successfully and build accordingly.

There is a HUGE difference between speeds around 200MPH and 220  in the mile and 5 mile .  Aerodynamics play some evil tricks.
Tires are also an important choice, and there are many opinions as you will see.
That is what is so special about our sport.  At Speedweek, you see 400 different approaches to the same engineering problems.  Some work well, some don't.

Good luck with your efforts

[jimmy six]

I like the "new" rule also and tried to be like that when I inspected for many years. If I were redoing my coupe I would look to a style like a NHRA Prostock and have it meet the sizing and thickness spelled out in our book. I would also look to a "Lajoie" style seat to put in it. Maybe without the Nascar head sides and use the side roll cage of the Prostock for the head support. You just can't be to safe.

Look at Danny Thompsons flip in the Mustang and then make your own decision.......Good Luck. JD

[SteveM]

I'm in the building stages for my H/DT right now.  I should be starting in on the cage in the next month or so, working on it in my "spare" time, as if any of us has spare time.  I want to make sure that I understand the rules clearly, so that I only have to do this job once.  The issue of full containment seats and/or Funny Car or Pro-Stock style cages is a bit confusing.

The existing record in this class is just over 105 mph.  Obviously, I want to be safe, but at the same time, do not want the added expense required to meet all of the rules for a 200 mph class.  I will be using 1-5/8" x 0.134 tubing for the cage.

I have a 2011 rulebook in front of me.  Rule 3.A.3, page 24 addresses the Driver's Helmet Support.  I am seeing a lot of use of the "Full Containment Seat", but I'm still not sure if such a seat is rigid enough to meet the requirements set out in 3.A.3. 

I currently have a Kirkey "Economy" seat that is a loaner from a friend for mock-up purposes.  He will let me keep the seat if I can use it.   If permissible, I would like to use this seat, in conjunction with a "Pro Stock", or "Funny Car" style roll cage (not sure if there is really a difference, or if this is just different terminology), with a structure that would meet the 2" per side limits as set in 3.A.3.

Does this seem like a legitimate approach? (Kirkey economy seat, placed inside a Pro-Stock or Funny Car cage), with whatever kind of restraints will be necessary to meet the 2" per side rule.

Steve.

[Peter Jack]

I'd call Kirkey because I think you'll find that even they aren't really big on that seat. It's built for a very specific market of rather slow cars. If you're approaching 100 mph you're well beyond what the seat is designed for in the event of a crash. I'd be looking for something more substantial no matter what cage you're planning on using.

Pete

[wheelrdealer]

My advice if your going on the salt. Build it stout. And build it to go faster than you originally think you are going to go. 

Below are two photos of the way I updated my car for 2011 with additional bars and full length left side head restraint. I had no issues in tech.
After my first year at Bonneville just cracking 200 on a 234 record, I realized I did not have the protection I needed. We are not even close to the record but the differnece in running 5 miles on the salt and those 1 mile runways is huge. We threw a driveshaft out at 191 and it ripped the floor to shreads. The spinning shaft almost cut my lap belt in two at the mount.

So this year a third update with two additional vertical supports at the left and right "A" pillar like Danny Thompson's car mentioned earlier in the thread. Also a Dale Earnhardt bar in the center windsheild that ties back to my fron down bars. In addition we cut the stock floor out and added 1 3/4 .120 DOM floor cage then fitted the floor with .125 plate. My point is all the attention typically goes to the cage but don't over look the floor. The drive shaft loop did its job but the shaft broke at the back and beat the floor to death until the car stopped. Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUiM1-DfKYY&feature=youtu.be If you want to see for yourself.

Good luck with your build

Bill

[SteveM]

Bill:
   Looks good and safe from here.  What seat is that?  I'm just trying to understand what is and what is not permitted by the rules.

Steve.

[wheelrdealer]

Steve, it is a Kirkey series 53 full containment http://www.kirkeyracing.com/index.php?link=browse&code=Series53. It ain't cheap but seats, fire systems, fire suits and cages in my opinion are not the place to save a buck. Theses seats are on sale at some of the NASCAR surplus sales from time to time. The neat thing is sometimes you can get a bargain on the seat and only have to change the head section to get the left side head support. Or you can build head containment into your cage. Just make sure you can get out without getting hung up. We tack welded my bars in, then installed the seat which in my car is a pain, it only goes in in pieces and you have to bolt it all together in the car. It takes time but worth the effort to know it functions properly.
In tech they were very particular about the left side door net. Make sure you have one made that completely fills the cage opening. Mine passed but Bill Taylor showed me a way to improve it. I have to have the net re-certified next year so I will incorporate Bill's suggestion. Also, just email the guys at SCTA. They have forgotten more than most of us will ever know about land speed racing. I have found them to be very helpful.
Good luck and show us some pictures.

Bill

[SteveM]

Thanks for the info.  I have a build thread for my project, but it's not very far along yet.

  http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,10625.0.html

I'm still working on welding in fresh steel where the factory subframe rails and floor were rusted away.  That doesn't stop me from having thoughts of each and every part of the car running through my head, though.  After the subframe work is done, then it's on to the floor boards, adding some 1/8" sheet to the floor and rocker areas, then starting in on the cage.

Steve.

[Dr Goggles]

The drive shaft loop did its job but the shaft broke at the back and beat the floor to death until the car stopped. Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUiM1-DfKYY&feature=youtu.be If you want to see for yourself.

Good luck with your build

Bill

Whoa, even though I knew it was coming it still gave me a start, you didn't even swear, well not loud enough to hear anyway, good job getting it back together and all.

[wheelrdealer]

Doc.
No, just was not sure so I pulled both fire bottles and got the chute out. I pulled to the left because in the car I could not tell if it was the drive shaft or if I left my crankshaft out at mile 2! The swearing started when the first replacement drive shaft I had built in Salt Lake City was an inch too short. Second trip to SLC for a new driveshaft.

Bill

[wheelrdealer]

Steve,

Page 2 of the build diaries look at this thread by Jeff. 1973 camaro AA/CGC He is building a AA/CGC on a mid-250-260 record. Jeff's is one stout 1973 Camaro. Since I have a '73 I took a lot of ideas from Jeff's car and incorporated it into mine. Once you are in the thread pages 12 and 13 have some cage shots. Jeffs a great guy and helped me a lot with my car.

Bill

[LSR Mike]

I just went thru this with Kirkey. I was looking at the (really) Cheap, 70/71 Series Containment seat. I called Kirkey to find out the difference, and their tech (Kevin?) suggested their 45 series seat for a LSR application which I bought. Gonna need a shoehorn to get it into the Mitsubishi. I looked at a Used LaJoie, they are extremely proud of their work as evidenced by the price. There is safe, and then there is corporate subsidized Inflated Racing Equipment (IMHO)

[Stainless1]

The drive shaft loop did its job but the shaft broke at the back and beat the floor to death until the car stopped. Go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUiM1-DfKYY&feature=youtu.be If you want to see for yourself.

Bill

Wow, that one seemed a little violent.... for the rookies, that is a great candidate for an emergency turn to the tower side....
Although fire bottles shouldn't be used unless you see fire.... expensive lesson...