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Author Topic: 650cc A-BG build TDR  (Read 7785 times)
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MTABike
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« on: December 13, 2011, 07:10:07 PM »

I'm finally starting a build diary for my bike.  I'm brand new to land speed racing and it's my first build in this arena.  I'm hoping that more experienced racers and builders can help steer me in the right direction, and help me avoid expensive or obvious mistakes.  Please feel free to chime in with any sort of comments, as I could use all the help I can get.  Some of you met me at Speedweek this year.  My buddy Brian and I were at SaltTalks briefly and managed to leave right before the deluge.  I was the tall guy with a beard and long hair who showed up in a black 63 Ford Galaxie (Brian's car).

I first attended Speedweek in 2009.  It was an amazing experience and I decided that I'd like to participate at some point.  I spent the next year lurking here and there around the net looking a various bike projects and landracing efforts.  My original thought was a small displacement A-class bike would be fun, and about the cheapest way I could get myself on the course. 
In 2010 I built a couple of aluminum tanks for a friend's car (#60 Montana Dodge Boys) and got a bit more insight into what it takes to get something actually running on the salt.  I decided that a small displacement modern sport bike engine would be a relatively cheap way to start and would be capable of reasonable speed eventually.  I've also wanted a turbo vehicle for a long time, as I spent a brief period of employment as a fabricator at a turbo shop. I've also owned Yamaha bikes almost exclusively throughout my life.

I decided that a 2003-2005 R6 or 2006-2009 R6S would be a good basis for my project for a few reasons. 600cc sport bikes tend to be seen as starter bikes for some reason and tend to get crashed a lot.  That and the 7 year time span that Yamaha made them should make for an easy time of sourcing extra motors and parts.  This was also the first generation of EFI for the R6, but doesn't use drive by wire.  I figured that would be the best basis for adding a turbo while maintaining some semblance of simplicity.

The original goal was to run at Speedweek 2011 but it's funny how life gets in the way and how fast a year goes by.

So far I've managed to source a few of these motors, most of my components and start on building the frame.  I'll bring you folks up to speed in subsequent posts and then keep updating with my current progress. 
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MTABike
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« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2011, 07:21:15 PM »

In September of 2010 I found a reasonably priced donor bike that was still together and functioning.  I managed to save a little gas money riding this around town instead of my F-250 with a 7.5l under the hood.

donor bike:


I eventually sold off a lot of unnecessary (for my plans) parts on ebay, and sourced two more donor bikes locally:




After lots of ebaying of parts, I'm left with 2 running engines, 1 mockup engine, 3 sets of wheels, 2 sets of USD forks, 1 stock untitled frame, and lots of little odds and ends.

 
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MTABike
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« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2011, 07:36:00 PM »

I then started trying to figure out frame geometry and layout of all the components planned for the bike.  I did some rough mockups and asked for general advice here on the board
http://www.landracing.com/forum/index.php/topic,8633.0.html

here's the first mockup:


and with me "on" it:


and another next to beginnings of my frame jig:


After advice from members here I decided on a wheelbase between 75"-80" and a steering head angle of 35o
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Old Scrambler
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« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2011, 07:50:38 PM »

Good start and lots of room to work (play).  Think about ground clearance, exhaust clearance, air and carb clearance, future turbo clearance, and then think about ground clearance all over again. If you plan to run in partial streamline, you will need it.  No front brakes and think about a narrow wheel / tire combo.  Don't set your pegs until you've tried the ride.
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2011 AMA Record - 250cc M-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 82.5 mph
2013 AMA Record - 250cc MPS-PG TRIUMPH Tiger Cub - 88.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc M-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 130.7 mph
2016 AMA Record - 750cc MPS-CG HONDA CB750 sohc - 137.7 mph
Chasis Builder / Tuner: Dave Murre
MTABike
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2011, 07:52:43 PM »

Next step was to build a frame jig, which has been a process in and of itself.

I used 2 88" lengths of  8" c-channel spaced 2" apart so that vertical supports made of 2" square stock could ride in the center.
The head tube support is 2" x 3" rectangular tube.


The head tube holder was made using an 3/4" acme threaded rod and some acme nuts that I turned part of in the lathe to center my dummy bearings on the acme shaft.




I needed something to hold the rear axle adjuster plates in place and came up with this:




It was then possible to put the stock frame and engine onto the beginning of the jig:
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MTABike
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2011, 08:06:21 PM »

Time to get the stock frame off and get things placed where they are going to live.




These pictures show the general layout of the major components: engine, turbo, rear wheel, head tube.
You can also see the very first tubes in that first picture, although they're not in their final position.

Here's a photo of some of the engine fixture.  I needed to support the engine without using the motor mounts, and decided to bolt the engine fixture to the engine through the oil pan holes.



In looking around at Speedweeks past, I haven't seen very many bikes with this long of a chain run.  I think that with the rigid rear end tension won't be a problem, but I'll be building one hell of a a chain guard.  The thought of the chain breaking and whipping around my leg keeps me up at night. 
 
This is all I can post for now.  I'll get everyone up to date over the course of the next few days.  Happy to hear any feedback and answer any questions that arise.
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Dr Goggles
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2011, 09:11:01 PM »

Good to see Billy nice get on the R6's looking forward to seeing what you build.............I have a photo that Simon took of you two leaning against the back of the Gal at Salt Talks, you looked fragged......I was clean, and hassle free but believe me I have been that guy covered in grease leaning against something that I wouldn't bet 5 cents was going to get me home without more grief.
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2011, 09:23:44 PM »

Looks like you got a good start there.  I agree, that chain length could be a real problem. You will want a good chain guard as well as some real good chain guides.  I would almost be tempted to run a jack shaft just to reduce the chance of a wild chain comming out of there.

John
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« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2011, 10:49:58 PM »

Is it worth running at least the top run through say a length of 1 X 2 tubing? That should prevent it from getting away and causing too much damage.

Pete
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« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2011, 12:06:23 PM »

Did you ever think of putting the engine behind the rider.....makes for a shorter chain, and also puts more traction on the rear wheel......just a thought.......(that's the way we build many of our sidecar outfits)
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MTABike
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« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2011, 02:48:33 PM »

Old Scrambler:
Ground clearance is at least 3" everywhere under the bike, and pegs will be one of the last things made for sure.

Doc:
We were a little demoralized after that day of fixing the car.  The radiator repair didn't leak a drop on the 10 hour drive home, or since, and that's his daily ride.  We were sitting on eggshells the entire drive, but made it.

John and Pete:
I'm significantly farther along now, and I think that a jack shaft is out of the question, as both the front and rear sprocket are lined up, and the rear wheel would perhaps have to be turned around to drive off the other side. 

Bak189:
I certainly did think about putting the motor behind the rider, but decided against it.  I think my logic here will be more obvious once the frame is done and I start building all the engine support stuff back in the big empty void behind me.  I think that if one was running an unblown air cooled motor the setup you describe would be ideal.
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MTABike
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« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2011, 02:58:28 PM »

The next thing I worked on was the turbo manifold.  At this point I had done lots of work with nothing to show for it, and wanted to build something that looked like an actual part.  This very well end up as a rough draft, but it's usable as is for now and cost one used exhaust system and a small piece of 3/8" stainless flat bar.











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MTABike
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« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2011, 03:16:44 PM »

It was then time to start getting some frame pieces on the jig, and building the fixtures to hold the tubes in place.  I know that I'm going about this a bit backwards, making all the tubes then connecting them into the axle and head tube and engine, but so far it's been working alright and I'm very slowly sneaking up on a chassis.







Here you can sort of see that the top tubes, which are centered, are offset from the cradle behind the engine






More in a couple of hours.  Need to go get some work done...

Anyone know why pictures I rotated in photobucket show up NOT rotated and distorted using an img tag??

« Last Edit: December 14, 2011, 03:20:06 PM by MTABike » Logged
bak189
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« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2011, 08:57:51 PM »

IF...you run a bike/sidecar on the salt/dirt with todays high powered in-line engines traction is always a problem.....How about putting the engine behind the rider....build a cradle for the engine that includes the engine and rear wheel assemble, put the swing arm pivot in front of the engine (not unlike today modern scooters) we now have all the weight directly on the salt/dirt for better traction.  Build the front part of the frame out of light weight 4130.....The rider rides in a kneeling position....using a elec. shifter on the left handle bar...a master cyl. on the right bar for the single disk on the rear wheel....no foot controls....The rider is just about the same profile as the top of the engine....low frontal profile....race the BUB event and use a Dustbin fairing and tail made by Airtech (as per AMA/FIM rules).........I understand BAKKER MOTORSPORTS is building a bike like this for a customer....
will be interesting to see how it works............................
.
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MTABike
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« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2011, 02:06:05 PM »

Bob,
I think that's a great idea.  I know that there's at least a couple of teams working from that concept. 
Speed Team Doo and Sodium Distortion have both built bikes that are similar to what you're talking about.

http://sideburnmag.blogspot.com/2010/07/sodium-distortion.html  has an article on a Buell powered  rear engined bike.

This is my first ever landracing bike build, and really the main goal is to cut my teeth, not break the mold.  There are some ideas that will be incorporated into this contraption that will help explain the more conventional layout.  The plans are to solve the traction issue via ballast.  I figure that if the fast guys can do it with weight on a conventional frame, I ought to be able to do it on my significantly lower power bike.

Cheers,
Scott
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