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Author Topic: Sidecars  (Read 30238 times)
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Nortonist 592
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« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2006, 04:01:27 PM »

I hope to.
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Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.
Flying Kiwi
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« Reply #31 on: March 10, 2006, 06:58:04 PM »

I am enjoying the sidecar banter especially the record breaking bits, i am the project director of the Flying Kiwi team in New Zealand and we set a new FIM World 1000cc record in July last year over the flying Kilometre, we got an average of 272 mh(168mph), reading your posts makes this speed seem slow but we are starved of decent roads here in NZ and ran on a b grade country lane which was about 6m wide with trees on one side and telegraph poles on the other!
, i had to keep within 250mm of the centre line to prevent the camber change upsetting the aerodynamics, if you are interested in seeing some photos please goto our site www.goflyingkiwi.co.nz

keep up the good work
phil
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Never take no for an answer and never give up.
If you really believe in what you are doing and youre really keen then you will succeed.
It is as simple as that.
Peter Blake.
Sumner
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« Reply #32 on: March 10, 2006, 07:39:02 PM »

That is fast on a road that wide Cheesy . I've only been to about 130 on a 2 lane in the desert and the cactus was going by pretty quick.

That is a beautiful body.  Bring it over and run it on the salt Tongue .

I would love to see it in real life.  I added a link to your site on my "links page".

c ya, Sum
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1212FBGS
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« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2006, 08:12:34 PM »

looks like a lot of hard work went into building your hack.. good job!
kr
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Nortonist 592
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« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2006, 08:51:14 PM »

STUNNING!!!!!  Just absolutely stunning.  Sumner says bring it over.  Please don't.  It will make mine look like the turd it really is.  How about some details?  Motor, frame, etc.  And for most of the people on this thread speed rating on the sidecar tire!!!!  Was it Bob Burns from down your way that ran a Vincent sidecar?  Or a Vinnie with a wheel on a stick as I remember the photo.  My hat is off to you.
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Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.
Flying Kiwi
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« Reply #35 on: March 11, 2006, 02:17:14 AM »

We went by FIM rules that are a bit different to your scta rules, you guys have much more experience of the actual requirements for making vehicles safe at the intended speed, the FIM have to produce generic rules that can be followed by anybody, anywhere in the world and that demands a less specific approach to individual classes, the actual FIM rules are more concerned with the safety of the event and the spectators and that the bike conforms to loose class definitions (mainly based on engine size, not aspiration method) so they offered us a lot of freedom, the only other rule book that i had was the NZ national Road Racing SIdecar regs, so we followed them as well! (sort of)

We built the bike to run on tarmac and the modifications required before it would run on the salt at its true potential (we estimate 385 kmh) are extensive, parachute, fire system etc, are all possible but tricky to retro fit.

it took me three and a half years to complete and involved over 300 people, i have recently finished the whole accounts thing and the total cost to break the record and build the bike etc has come in at NZ$212,581

which is quite a bit more than i thought when i started!

tyres, we used Triumph DAytona wheels and rear swinging arm, that meant that we had to use motorcycle tyres that were rated to the 320 kmh that we were aiming for, the only choice that we had here in NZ was Michelin Pilots. They worked real good and would certainly be safe to go a lot quicker on if the rules allowed.

happy to answer any other questions you guys may have,
our bike is actually going up for sale now, i am looking at putting it up for auction in either Australia or Japan, but i would prefer to see it go to somebody that is going to use it instead of just look at it, if you know anybody that might be interested in buying a current WOrld Record holding bike with a gear to go.. please let me know

remember...
Speed kills....
              Go Faster.

cheers
Phil
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Never take no for an answer and never give up.
If you really believe in what you are doing and youre really keen then you will succeed.
It is as simple as that.
Peter Blake.
Nortonist 592
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« Reply #36 on: March 11, 2006, 07:27:19 PM »

I'm still stunned by it.  I'm afraid my effort pales into insignificance.  I've got about $1700 in mine and in the number of people involved I'm minus 299 .  I am curious to know the wheelbase and how much lead you have on the sidecar wheel?  I'm leading the back wheel on mine by 10".   Yours looks to have considerably more.  And what kind of steering are you using?  One final question.  How much drag does the Kiwi flag generate?  A couple of non sidecar questions.   I'm new to this forum and am curious to know what the points mean that you get for each entry?   And what is the meaning of donate under each points total?  And can I use the accumulated points for El Mirage?
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Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.
Flying Kiwi
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« Reply #37 on: March 11, 2006, 09:50:17 PM »

I tried last time to upload a decent picture of the chassis but it was too big, i'll try again with another picture,

To answer  your question, we had that choice of 60 kg of lead or a passenger, mainly because i did'nt want to kill anybody else, i chose the lead! although i had 9 dead keen volunteers!

it is 2 halves, one in front of the side wheel and one just inboard.

Because we used a Triumph rear arm the distance is exactly as on the triumph, the front and rear wheels are in line, the engine however is 60mm offset towards the side wheel to give better balance.

The steering is double wishbone hub centre, designed by us and taken from a picture of a LCR racing sidecar, the steering ratio is reduced to give only about 7 degrees of lock, this successfully prevented over reaction at speed but is a pain when moving it around the carpark!

goto our site for more pictures

www.goflyingkiwi.co.nz

cheers
phil
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Never take no for an answer and never give up.
If you really believe in what you are doing and youre really keen then you will succeed.
It is as simple as that.
Peter Blake.
bak189
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« Reply #38 on: March 11, 2006, 10:38:59 PM »

Hey people, the flag on the back of
the outfit allows the driver "to keep it between the hedges" as Sidecar Roadracing World Champion
Eric Oliver has been known to say!!! Hub-steering makes for a low frontal area...however is not needed for straight-line sidecar racing...modified normal M/C forks work just fine.  Hey Phil, what kind of money are you expecting to get for your outfit? Also "YES"
the Burns Vincent sidecar was a "wheel on a stick"
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Flying Kiwi
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« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2006, 11:27:21 PM »

Hey Bob

Good to hear from you!

As usual you hit the nail on the head!  I have had some real problems in valuing the bike, there is no precedent that i can see, current World Record holder with a gear to go, as you know the project cost over $200k to complete but i do not expect to get anything like that for it, if i could get somewhere between $50k and $200k then i could buy a chassis out of switzerland and go on to win the NZ sidecar roadracing championship, but at the end of the day it is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it, from a personal point of view i would rather take less and see someone use it for what it was designed for!

It will be very tough to see it go after putting my heart and soul in to it for nearly 4 years but i have got to do it if i want to move on with the rest of my plans.

Also my wife said she has had enough and will walk if i decide to go on for another year!

cheers
phil
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Never take no for an answer and never give up.
If you really believe in what you are doing and youre really keen then you will succeed.
It is as simple as that.
Peter Blake.
Flying Kiwi
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« Reply #40 on: March 11, 2006, 11:33:50 PM »

Heres a picture without the bodyshell, hope it comes out ok
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Never take no for an answer and never give up.
If you really believe in what you are doing and youre really keen then you will succeed.
It is as simple as that.
Peter Blake.
bak189
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« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2006, 11:18:34 AM »

Phil, regarding selling your outfit.....I know you would like to have someone get it an run it.....however, I know of a museum that is building a great display of competition sidecars.....they have our 1991 streamliner outfit in their display. contact me at:
bbakker@webtv.net
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Dean Los Angeles
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« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2006, 03:07:08 PM »


This is Jack McClure's Kart with a  1500 lb thrust Reaction Dynamics rocket motor. This kart turned 215 mph in the quarter mile! That's with a 1967 Goodyear Eagle kart tire.

I ran a road racing kart with a 350 Kawasaki in 1971 and have a timing slip at 172 at Ontario Motor Speedway. That's not just straight line, but racing cornering speeds and heavy braking loads.

In 1980, the karting speed envelope was pushed yet further by Australian Rosco McGlashan. Rosco, who at the time was living in the U.S., built and drove a hydrogen peroxide rocket kart that surpassed 253 mph! That's over 7700 rpm on the tire!

Tread separation is largely caused by side wall failure from heat caused by the tire flexing as it is loaded and unloaded on every revolution. Tire flex is a function of side wall stiffness, and the very small side wall on a kart tire is very stiff. Centrifugal force also places huge stress on the tire, and the larger the diameter, the larger the force. The small diameter of the kart tire works to its benefit at higher speeds.

I work for an automotive wheel manufacturer. We have 8 tires running constantly at 55 mph with 4,000 pounds of load to test the wheel at abnormal loads. 4,000 pounds on one tire distorts the side wall enough that the tire reaches 150 F in the side wall within 30 seconds. There is a large dumpster with brand new tires with no tread wear that have blown the side wall out. It happens about every two days and is fun to watch if you are near by. That is, after your heart starts pumping again!
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Well, it used to be Los Angeles . . . 50 miles north of Fresno now.
Just remember . . . It isn't life or death.
It's bigger than life or death! It's RACING.
Nortonist 592
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« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2006, 05:08:29 PM »

Dean Los Angeles, Thank you very much.  I had forgotten about "Cap'n" Jack.  This is what I have been trying to explain.  That kart tires are capable of a lot.  What I plan to do to the tire at El Mirage is nothing compared to the abuse they get at a track.  172 at Ontario?  Whew!!  In talking to Tom Evans at El Mirage I think with the info I provided and the class I'm running in Tom realized that my sidecar poses no threat to the tire.  I have absolutely no doubt that the tire is way more than able.
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Get off the stove Grandad.  You're too old to be riding the range.
jprovo
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« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2006, 10:16:08 AM »

Flying Kiwi,

Nice setup, I can see that a lot of time and engineering went into your machine. Great website too.

All this talk of sidecars has gor me wanting to build one. I'll have to get in touch with a buddy of mine who built a LSR sidecar rig awhile back....
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