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Author Topic: MPS-PG-650 build  (Read 19272 times)
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DND
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« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2013, 03:32:29 AM »

Hi Jim

Can post a pic of your Tram as i like that ' Spiro Gearloose ' stuff too.

How in the heck did your valves hit the piston's, first guess oop's cam in the wrong place?

Neat looking salt bike too

G Don
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JimL
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« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2013, 02:52:08 PM »

Bonneville projects teach you to fabricate!  This project is planning for old age, when we can no longer carry a loaded wheelbarrow up and down steep stairs (which will be about Thursday, I'd say).  I also have to be able to take my welder down to fix the crappy fence the previous owner cobbled up. 

When finished, the "rails" will be concealed by weathered cedar, with x-style trestle bracing for appearance.  The tram car will be dressed to look like an old mine car, and the winch will be enclosed in a weathered looking box.  I run the cable to the car, through the bottom square tube, and then up to the opposite rail end.  This gives the winch 2:1 reduction, mainly for slowing down the movement.

At the top of the bank (near the landing of the tramway) will be a garden shed, made to look like an old mine Assay office.  Also, the sprinkler valve manifolds and control area (other side of the tramway, toward the fence) will be hidden in a rough concrete "abandoned mine" facing-box, with a weathered iron door for access to work on the manifolds and valves.  This is all happening because the bank must be covered with the black rock I haul from a local quarry.  They let me take a truckload for $10 if I load it.  Fortunately, I have a homemade liftgate on my little flatbed!

Just a note... the 1 5/8" .120 wall galvanized (used to build the tramway) is cheaper than non-galvanized, around here.  Go figure. undecided

JimL


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DND
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« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2013, 03:33:59 PM »

Hi Jim

Yep this rac'n stuff is the perfect learning place for stuff you will never learn in a class room, as it teach's one to think outside the box

Your tram is really neat, thanks for the pics

Looking forward to seeing it all done

G Don
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JimL
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« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2013, 10:44:49 PM »

Yes on the cam... one tooth off.  Thats what happens when you clay check, confirm its good, and then have to tear back down for a different reason.  You see, last year I bent the cam bolts (backed out of the gear) on my A bike and subsequently put them in with Loctite.  

So....now I had this engine together, but got nervous whether I Loctited them.  I pulled it back apart, redid the Loctite on the cam bolts, after removing the cam gear and cleaning out the Loctite I'd already done.  By this time its late in the evening, hot, tired, and swatting mosquitos.  Putting the cam in one tooth off was pretty much de riguer at that point.

Now for another lesson.  Sunday night, just before I shut the engine down from the 30 second run without coolant (recommended to melt the glue on the headgaskets), it started fluffing the front cylinder.  I had pulled the lever on the Pingle as soon as it fired, therefore the event did not seem abnormal.  Today, I was putting firesleeve on the fuel lines.  I use a small diameter punch in the fuel hose, to keep the fiberglass strands out of the fuel line (having stuck a float needle from this issue, two years ago).  After getting the sleeve in place, I pulled out the punch.  Chunks of gritty rubber fell on the floor.

At that moment I realized I had used this section of fuel line with some E10 pump gas run through it, about a year ago (transferring some gas).  After cleaning out the carb (did both, just in case), I called it a day.

Gentlemen, if you have EVER had E10 in your race bike fuel lines, watch out.

Regards, JimL
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salt27
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« Reply #64 on: July 10, 2013, 12:42:47 AM »

Not just e10.

I had left my float bowls full of race gas and they had a red dust like compound in them.

Don

P.S. Jim, when ever you want to come by just give me a shout.

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DND
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« Reply #65 on: July 10, 2013, 09:28:44 AM »

Hi Jim

Do you have room for Safety wire on your cam bolts, pretty bullit proof way to keep them in place

Plus i like to use a indicator for checking valve to piston, as the clay can give you a false reading and the idicator is right on

G Don
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JimL
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« Reply #66 on: July 10, 2013, 11:51:21 AM »

Don, I think thats the tetraethyl lead, isnt it?  I know it gets in the oil and stains the bottom of the piston crowns, whatever it is.  I'll give you a call, got to go chase fuel line today and a Crepe Myrtle for wife.

G Don, I am not that skilled or advanced.  Truth is, CP had my heads and previous pistons to build from and they were confident the problems of 2010-11 were solved.  Last year I finally came home with a lesser damaged engine.  The clay was just making sure the new higher lift-duration cam.

As they say, "I'd rather be lucky, than good, any day of the week."
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Jon
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« Reply #67 on: July 10, 2013, 03:14:30 PM »

That's a bummer Jim
Got replacement valves laying about?
How many did you tweak?

The tramway is pretty cool.

jon
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« Reply #68 on: July 10, 2013, 05:37:15 PM »

Did not bend any.  The piston was chasing the exhaust valves shut, and the cam chain tensioner released on the ramp, allowing the cam and valves to "stay out of the way".  It was hard enough contact to push the tensioner spring, not hard enough to bend valves...but I had to be sure it was ok.

Because CP worked from my heads, they got the piston relief to valve angle exactly right.  I had perfect oil imprints of the exhaust valves on the pistons but no damage.  Its a good thing the battery was low and it wouldnt start!

Here we are again, another case of luck better than smart. wink

Thanks, Jon. The tramway is really fun.  There is something fascinating about standing there pushing a button and watchng heavy loads roll down or up.  I actually built the entire railway on the floor of the shop, upside down.  I dragged it out and down over the bank, and then flipped it over into predug holes.  Leveled on jackstands and wood blocks, it was easy to poor the concrete and let it set up.  The wheels are standard commercial gate rollers (inexpensive and easy to replace).  I have a piece of that pipe mounted in the attic of the shop, with one of these winches on two of those rollers above the pipe.  I can lift stuff and roll it sideways with one hand, or pick things all the way onto the attic floor.  Great for working on bike projects.  I put the spare CBR600f3 roller up there, by myself.

JimL
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 05:52:12 PM by JimL » Logged
JimL
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« Reply #69 on: July 10, 2013, 06:55:20 PM »

A couple pics from this build, to show the simple overhead winch I use (actually built to load stuff in the attic).  A better setup for bike building would be to have about 8 feet of roll bar pipe from above the middle of the work bench, to a point over the build table.  You could pick bike engines or whatever right straight onto the bench.  

I have been using this, during the build, to lift one end or the other (or the whole bike) when taking various bits on and off.  Its very handy when trying to change suspension height setup.  When I picked the bike up in Colorado (with engine in it, fairing mounted, etc.), we simply hoisted it up in the air, backed my truck under it, and let it down into the bed.  No ramps, no back strains, no problems.

Winch = $99 at Harbor Freight
Wheels = $20 a pair at fence supply

JimL

ps...you can see there is another one of these that lifts my Hobie Kayaks, complete on the rack, on and off my Tracker.  Four bolts and we are headed for the lake.


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« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 06:58:22 PM by JimL » Logged
manta22
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« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2013, 07:26:02 PM »

JimL;

Great idea!

Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
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Regards, Neil  Tucson, AZ
salt27
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« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2013, 10:11:42 PM »

Jim, thanks for all the info and giving our project a look over.

Oh, and the fire sleeve and the book and the offer of a trolley ride (I declined).

The tank got bumped to next week, I'm starting to get a little antsy.

Thanks again, Don
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 10:15:40 PM by salt27 » Logged
JimL
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« Reply #72 on: July 13, 2013, 07:53:54 PM »

Your welcome, and the tramway is certainly safe.  I hauled down 28 loads of cement today with no problems (built the lower landing a and caisson that keeps the dirt bank from migratng into the landing area.)

Good news on this bike project; it ran through a half gallon of fuel without breaking.  I am puzzled why the exhaust is so loud (on both bikes) since changing the camshafts.  It is actually pretty painful.

Does anyone know why the exhaust would be much louder after going big on the cam?

Thanks, JimL

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« Reply #73 on: July 14, 2013, 11:44:34 AM »

The exhaust valve opens at a time when there is more pressure in the combustion chamber.  Also, there is more mix being pulled in and being burned so the combustion event makes more pressure, too.

The old Triumphs had easily adjustable timing on each cam.  Sometimes, if the exhaust was real loud, the tuner would change the lobe center timing a bit to keep the pressure in the cylinder for a longer period.  This helped the power.  This tuning by ear was explained to me in the early 1970's.  Hopefully my memory is remembering it correctly.
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JimL
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« Reply #74 on: July 14, 2013, 02:55:34 PM »

I do remember the multiple, seemingly random, slots in the cam gears and cams.  I watched a friend set up my T120 cams with a degree wheel and dial indicators (used the JOMO 15B cams popular for flat track).

He always claimed it was Triumphs way of avoiding the need for accurate production machinng.  Just give the mechanic enough choices to make it close enough, was his theory!

Thanks for the explanation.  I thought I might have done something wrong, but I've been in and out of these engines enough times that I know they are set the only way they can run.  Hopefully, this cam issue was the reason we didnt have much top end power the last few years.

Hope your preparations are moving along ok.
Jim
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