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Author Topic: Beairsto & Forstall 3000 APS/G  (Read 8697 times)
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JimL
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« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2011, 11:50:11 PM »

This looks a lot better to me, and you know my terrible gear experience on my twin engine bike.  I don't believe gear coupling can work with your gearbox arrangement, because there would be no way to keep torque events together.

One thought....it looks like you are running about 5000-6000 RPM on those sprockets (my guess)....can you get smaller on the rear sprocket and stay out of that overdrive top gear?  That would slow this chain down and reduce the kickback losses being fed and rebounded through the transmissions.  Any bucking that occurs in this coupling will be multiplied by the inverse of your overdrive trans ratio and then repeated back from the cushion damping in the primary drives (I think mostly on the front transmission).  On the little trucks, we learned years ago that towing in overdrive (5th gear) would pound the race out of the input shaft bearing (because the trailer bucking was amplified back through the overdrive and up against the spinning flywheel....which didn't want to change speed!)

It's not like your short of power to pull a bigger first gear!!

Regards, JimL
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Koncretekid
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« Reply #16 on: July 22, 2011, 05:50:51 AM »

Now that idler looks much more substantial. The old one looked like it would collapse on gear down. And as the 530 drive chain is designed to transmit a hell of a lot of torque, it should be strong enough although it normally doesn't run at engine speed.  I suspect your rubbing block will let you know if centrifugal force if raising havoc.   

Excuse my ignorance, but where are you taking the motor drives from?  Are they running at crankshaft speed?

Tom
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Beairsto Racing
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« Reply #17 on: July 22, 2011, 07:28:00 AM »

Jim,
That's a good point to consider...I have a stack of rear sprockets so we certainly have the option of staying out of 5th if that proves to be a solution. Larry had a large selection of rear sprockets for the 18" PM rear wheel. After the 17" race tire rule change, I scored another set of PM wheels but had to get Sprocket Specialists to machine up another batch.

Tom,
The coupler is splined to both of the countershafts, I shift both transmissions at the same time.

Cheers,
Scott
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« Reply #18 on: July 22, 2011, 08:31:05 AM »

The rebuilt engines are each 1316cc with 14:1 compression.


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JimL
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« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2011, 08:37:36 AM »

Another thing to check....where is 5th gear on the shafts compared to 4th.  I've seen some transmissions with 4th gear right next to a bearing (good) and 5th gear "one gear away" (not as strong).  That could also be a decision point for running in 4th (plus lower final chain speed, as well!)

Looking forward to seeing this again.

JimL
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« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2011, 08:42:20 AM »

It looked clean when it was just a pair of engines in the frame...it gets busy when you add the 4 oil coolers, 2 banks of carbs and all the lines and cables.


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WhizzbangK.C.
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« Reply #21 on: July 22, 2011, 09:12:54 AM »

With the engines coupled through the counter shafts, do you think there will be any issues with the power pulses from the engines wreaking havoc due to not being synchronized?
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« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2011, 11:28:23 PM »

With the engines coupled through the counter shafts, do you think there will be any issues with the power pulses from the engines wreaking havoc due to not being synchronized?

We have some flexibility with the adjustable ignition timing for both engines.
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« Reply #23 on: July 23, 2011, 12:58:26 AM »

I called Race Tech and had them build a new pair of custom rear shocks.


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« Reply #24 on: July 23, 2011, 10:36:58 AM »

Two shocks in the back, I remember that , sort of. evil Looking forward to meeting you, finally.
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2011, 11:34:52 AM »

I've been working in Kenya since Speed Week...internet has been hit & miss at best, I could usually follow along with WOS or the Cook Shoot Out but almost never enough connection to post. I'm back in Dubai and headed home, it's time for an update...

As the coupler had proven to be the weak link previously, we just wanted to test the new one at Speed Week and cautiously move forward. I made a couple of easy passes on the rookie course to break in the new engines, the Double is too long for a bike dyno. We were very pleased when we removed the coupler's cover and found the chain and tensioner to be in excellent shape! The redesigned tensioner and oil bath gave me the confidence to take it to the long course for the first time.

I made 3 passes on the long course at a little over 200, each run rewarded us with a leaking oil cooler. The bike has 4 of them, (oil cooled GSXR) but the same bottom cooler repeatedly failed. Initially when the cooler first failed and we didn't see anything obvious other than the corner of the cooler mount had cracked, I just assumed it was another character building exercise

We lost a day waiting for a replacement cooler but enjoyed spectating and visiting with friends.
I found the first couple of miles very rough on my 2nd long course run, I could see the front forks flexing and never got a chance to open up the throttle until the 3rd mile. The long course was moved over that evening. When we were loading into the trailer, we discovered the new cooler was leaking. We also had a front fender bracket crack, and I assumed the 2nd cooler failure was the result of vibration.
 
We lost another day waiting for yet another replacement cooler and at this point, had little choice but to just laugh at it...we'd have no luck if it wasn't for bad luck. Again, checked the bike over and it appeared ok. The oil lines were not pulling on the cooler causing stress, there appeared to be enough ground clearance so I didn't think the bike was bottoming out against the oil pan's fittings, again figured it was vibration and we would attempt to isolate it.

It was noon on Thursday before we got the new cooler, it doesn't seem to matter how much I pay for overnight or urgent shipping, the parts show up in Wendover whenever they do. We added rubber to the mounts, double checked the lines and got in line mid-afternoon. The bike worked great but had lots of wheel spin. On my Hayabusa, I can just feather the throttle slightly when it spins and regain traction. When the Double spins, it feels more like an elastic band winding up and releasing, I find that I really have to back out of the throttle before I can open it up again. It's hard to be disappointed with any 200mph run... no leaks! I was determined to just get back in line and go at it again, I wasn't even going to get out of my gear...let's hot lap...the event is over tomorrow...we need to get to impound...and then the corner of the oil cooler started dripping. grin We were done, there simply wasn't enough time to get a replacement cooler.

No regrets, I spent a week with friends and family doing something that I enjoy, and watching some of the coolest racers anywhere. The coupler issue is resolved, that was previously a deal breaker...we can go fowards, an oil cooler is a much smaller problem.

When we switched from 18" wheels to 17" in order to comply with the 200+ race rubber rule, we lost some ground clearance. However, there is no evidence of the bottom oil cooler or its fittings coming into contact with anything, just salt spray. The oil coolers worked fine when the bike ran last, so that is puzzling. There are no obstructions in the lines. We are fitting a new body and as a result, the oil coolers will all be replaced with a different set up and relocated with new lines and new mounts.

More to follow...

Cheers,
Scott


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Peter Jack
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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2011, 12:34:44 PM »

Scott, how about trying a cradle type mount with lots of rubber instead of a through bolt type mount? I've always found them to be more reliable. Otherwise there are some really flexible mounts that can be used with the bolt hole type mounts.

Pete
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Koncretekid
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2011, 01:38:13 PM »

Congratulations on running the monster!  I'm sure you'll get the oil cooler mount solved.  Do you have an oil temperature gauge?  Maybe you can eliminate the one that's failing, or replace it with a more substantial, but not as efficient billet spool type cooler.
Tom
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2011, 02:51:17 PM »

Jack,

Yes, we will use a cooler mount that will isolate vibration. The new body will dictate where the new coolers go and just about everything else hanging off the engines.


Tom,

The oil cooled GSXR's need a 2nd oil cooler for the head to keep the valve train cool once you start throwing more compression and bigger cams at them. They just can't shed the heat and the parts quickly lose their surface hardness. 2 engines necessitate 4 oil coolers.
I currently have a pair of Vapor Trail gauges, it was the quick & dirty fix to provide tachometers but I can't read the upper end of the digital bar graph at speed. I'm considering these analog gauges, they are a bit busy but I should be able to keep track of the oil pressure and see what the oil temperature is at the end of the run.


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« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2011, 03:01:45 PM »

I got a set of the e-bike body work from Kent @Airtech, we figured it would be a good choice for the Double's long wheel base.
I was able to mock it up on the bare chassis last spring. Again, the body will now dictate where everything else goes and that means new clip-ons, controls, oil coolers and plumbing and the rear mounted fuel tank. I'm undecided on just extending the headers out the side or running an exhaust out back, it will depend on the space available.


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